Kyle Rittenhouse

[Old-Duckman]

Was Kyle foolish to have gone to the riots, yes. Was he 17 Y.O. at the time? Yes. Did you always do the wise thing when you were 17?

What an unusual country the US is.

At the age of 17 you can't buy alcohol, rent a car, vote or join the military. In many states you aren't allowed to have sex and if caught are deemed a rapist but you can own a rifle and legally wander the streets with it

Well I turned 18 in USN boot camp, but my parents did have to sign for me to get in.

Well the sex thing it is actually called statutory rape which means it was not forced but the girl was under the age of consent. Like you said not consistent through all 50 states. When I was in the Navy in the late 70's, we were in the shipyards in Bath, Maine. A shipmate had a underage girlfriend and he had a handgun that he kept in his glove compartment of his truck, which he did not keep a secret (shall we say). My guess is that he did something that made her mad and she accused him of kidnap and rape. He got 2, 12 year terms in jail. I don't recall if they were concurrent or consecutive. Lesson: don't piss off your underage girlfriend!

Some (probably most) places in the US you can openly carry a firearm, concealing it is a different story and varies among the states. For concealed carry some require training, licensing and/or background checks. Other have what is called "Constitutional Carry" which means any non-felon can legally carry concealed. I think there are around 17 states that currently have Constitutional carry but don't hold me to that number. In Pennsylvania I have to undergo an "instant background check" (the same thing I would do to buy a firearm) and pay $25 for a 4 year license (I might be slightly off on the cost and length of license but that is what this 66 year old mind remembers).

Personally I think Kyle was foolish bringing the rifle with him but his life was clearly threatened (with death or serious bodily harm) and he was well within his rights to defend himself...though the bleeding heart liberals (and obviously many on this forum) considers him a murder. Clearly by law and circumstances he is not.

Anyone who looks at gun violence honestly (and there are many over here that refuse to do so) would realize that the VAST majority of illegal use of firearms occurs in large urban areas and are gang related. Clean up the gangs and guns deaths would drop precipitously.

I have a concealed carry permit and thus legally carry a firearm for self defense. I have never drawn my weapon and hope I never have to but I am glad that the current laws allow me to do so. There are many laws restricting the defensive use of firearms. Using a firearm defensively has very stringent restrictions, as it should, but as the old saying goes, "I'd rather have a gun and not need it than to need a gun and not have it." Lots of things I hate about the state of the USA today but the fact that the 2nd amendment is still in force is not one of them, I am thankful for it!

The chart below is from https://lawofselfdefense.com/

[Vornwend]

Anyone who looks at gun violence honestly (and there are many over here that refuse to do so) would realize that the VAST majority of illegal use of firearms occurs in large urban areas and are gang related. Clean up the gangs and guns deaths would drop precipitously.

Do you have a source for that claim? I did a few quick searchs and what I found suggests that c60% of gun deaths in the USA are suicides (and that suicide rate is one of the highest in the developed world, more than twice the UK rate) and less than 15% gang related. No doubt there will be some challenges in collecting consistent and comparable data but seems quite a distance from being the vast majority? I'd suggest that guns lead to significantly more deaths in the USA than would otherwise be the case primarily driven by the ease with which guns can be pointed at the owners themselves. I for one am grateful we don't have anything like the 2nd amendment over here

[Pondrew]

I for one am grateful we don't have anything like the 2nd amendment over here

We have the right to bare arms. This young lady is exercising that right beautifully IMHO :

images 7.jpg (6.86 KiB) Viewed 400 times

[Old-Duckman]

Anyone who looks at gun violence honestly (and there are many over here that refuse to do so) would realize that the VAST majority of illegal use of firearms occurs in large urban areas and are gang related. Clean up the gangs and guns deaths would drop precipitously.

Do you have a source for that claim? I did a few quick searchs and what I found suggests that c60% of gun deaths in the USA are suicides (and that suicide rate is one of the highest in the developed world, more than twice the UK rate) and less than 15% gang related. No doubt there will be some challenges in collecting consistent and comparable data but seems quite a distance from being the vast majority? I'd suggest that guns lead to significantly more deaths in the USA than would otherwise be the case primarily driven by the ease with which guns can be pointed at the owners themselves. I for one am grateful we don't have anything like the 2nd amendment over here

Honestly I do not nor did I search for info related to suicide. My "sources" are simply reading and hearing reports of gun violence, often leading to death, from cities such as Chicago (one of the ones in the news the most for gun violence), Washington DC, LA, Detroit and other major cities. I live near Pittsburgh and they seem to be low on that list. I just did a search for "gun violence in major cities" the clip and link are from the first article in the search (DuckDuckGo, I do not use google).

This is cut from an article dated July 2020, link to the article below.

Over 1,500 people have been shot in Chicago, almost 900 in Philadelphia, and more than 500 in New York City so far in 2020 — all up significantly from the same time last year (1,018 in Chicago, 701 in Philadelphia and 355 in New York).

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/gu ... t-n1233269

I am no stranger to suicide by firearm, my own nephew took his life with a handgun while sitting parked in his truck, he was 26. My mother's next door neighbor drove down to the end of the hill that she lives near and shot himself with a rifle. We had a co-worker at my place of employment, I believe it was 2 years ago now, who shot himself in his back yard, he was a German citizen working in the states. Another co-worker, this was over 5 years ago, shot himself while talking on the phone to his ex-wife. People who commit suicide are, without a doubt, mentally ill. Does a firearm make the job easier? I don't see how anyone could argue that it does not. Would they take their life by some other means? Who knows what percentage would but I'm sure some would find other ways. I used to teach jewelry making and metalsmithing at several local arts centers. One student who I became friends with had her grandfather take his own life by drowning himself in a river. He was a Chinese born man.

I personally know one person who was murdered with a handgun. He was white and lived in a black "ghetto" area and was set-up by a black woman (who he knew personally) the man who murdered him was black. The woman had been with him when he withdrew an amount of money from a ATM. She told the black man (I assume a friend of hers) where this man was and he got into the truck with him to attempt to steal his money, pulled a handgun and in the struggle my friend was shot once in the chest and died. I read the police report on line and as I recall there might have been two black men involved. I later read where they were all in jail, I don't know the ultimate outcome.

So you are right that cleaning up the gangs would not stop suicide by firearm but it would for all practical purposes greatly reduce so called gun violence. Of course non-gang members kill other people with all kinds of weapons, the gun is just easier. According to FBI murder statistics firearms are used in more murders than any other means, with the handgun being used the most and rifles the least. What is the big push in America to ban wtih respect to firearms...? The AR-15 and its relatives. Hmmm so are the powers that be in America really trying to stop death by firearm or is their something else behind the push to bans semi-automatic rifles. If nothing else it would be the camel's nose under the tent and other types of firearms would soon follow.

Many in the US feel just like you, they think the 2nd amendment is obsolete and should be done away with. As I would imagine that you know, the 2nd amendment was not put in place to allow hunting or even self defense but was wisely put there to give the citizens a means to deal with a tyrannical government. Not long ago Biden made sport of that idea by saying that we would need jet fighters and nuclear weapons were the citizens to oppose such a government. Hey sleepy Joe, check out Afghanistan...of course he wants to forget that country even exists!

IMO, and I have stated it here before, the world is trending toward a one world government (if people can't see that then they are truly blind). A one world government can not have a country with free citizens allowed to own firearms. not sure how it will be done here in the states but ...it will be done. I hope I don't live long enough to see it.

[enuff_zed]

Looks like either:
a. Food ran out in the bunker
b. Boredom set in
c. They finally got the internet down there

[Nanu]

I spent 23 years of my life serving my country so that the likes of you had the freedom to voice your own opinions, so I'm damned if I'm going to listen to you pontificating about mine.

I feel sure that you did not have the 'likes of Flyingfifer' in mind when you volunteered for a 'job' in one of the armed forces. It is not as if you were conscripted to fight, was it? It was a job, so cut the crap.

Just a point that you don't have to have been in the armed forces to serve your country. Some of us served our country for a lot longer without being in the Armed forces.

[Pondrew]

Just a point that you don't have to have been in the armed forces to serve your country

Waiter?

[slick]

I spent 23 years of my life serving my country so that the likes of you had the freedom to voice your own opinions, so I'm damned if I'm going to listen to you pontificating about mine.

I feel sure that you did not have the 'likes of Flyingfifer' in mind when you volunteered for a 'job' in one of the armed forces. It is not as if you were conscripted to fight, was it? It was a job, so cut the crap.

Just a point that you don't have to have been in the armed forces to serve your country. Some of us served our country for a lot longer without being in the Armed forces.

Or making a song and dance of it

[Ian J]

Just a point that you don't have to have been in the armed forces to serve your country. Some of us served our country for a lot longer without being in the Armed forces.

Tax Collector

[304frp]

I feel sure that you did not have the 'likes of Flyingfifer' in mind when you volunteered for a 'job' in one of the armed forces. It is not as if you were conscripted to fight, was it? It was a job, so cut the crap.

Just a point that you don't have to have been in the armed forces to serve your country. Some of us served our country for a lot longer without being in the Armed forces.

Or making a song and dance of it

I’ll second that