Plan B Covid measures

[BMWZ4MC]

Unlike most that refuse the vaccine you have a dilemma and it's not just a case of I don't want it. Myocarditis is also a possible side effect listed on most Cold remedies but with your history your fear is understandable. Stay safe in what ever way you can.

Strangely this came up today, and we read that the statistics show that the risk of myocarditis/pericarditis caused by the vaccine is less than 30% of the risk of getting myocarditis/pericarditis from full-blown covid.

Reported rates of Myocarditis/pericarditis were 12 cases per MILLION people, and these were predominantly in the 12-39 age range where they had received 2 doses an mRNA vaccine (4.4 cases per million after single dose).

Those figures don’t exactly echo the emerging statistics I’ve seen.

In any case, even if it was a 0.00001% chance of developing pericarditis from getting vaccinated I’m not willing to take the risk. No way. Pericarditis is something I wouldn’t wish on my worst enemy.
In the space of 2 hours I went from a healthy 31yr old wondering where this chesty cough had come from while out riding my bike, to getting home from the bike ride and collapsing on the floor, to being rushed into ICU and pumped full of prednisone. Then spending the next 3 months in and out of ICU, losing half my bodyweight and having a feed-tube stuck up my nose to keep me from wasting away. Having a barrage of tests to try and establish if it was viral or systemic so I could be treated effectively. I never actually got a full diagnosis in the end, even after all those tests, some of which were damn painful, like the one where a needle the diameter of a fekin drinking straw was inserted into my hip to get a sample of bone marrow and the doctor didn’t inject enough anaesthetic before lancing me. Arrrrrg.
One of the worst aspects however, was the psychological impact; notwithstanding the fact that I was smack bang in the middle of 2 big supply contracts and negotiating for another and the residual anxiety about not having any redundancy in place for my involvement, it was also a strain on my parents who live in the UK and were worrying and trying to visit me in NL as much as they could. Lying helpless in a hospital bed with no strength to even take a few steps and having the worst fevers imaginable as well as the pain from an inflamed pericardium really takes its’ toll on the old noodle.
If I hadn’t had the support from my friend Laura and my parents I think I would have gone menkal.
For about a year after I left hosi I was also having nightmares involving choking and suffocation. Ptsd?
So no, while it’s an admittedly miniscule risk of developing myo/pericarditis one bout was more than enough thanks.

The commonest cause of ‘idiopathic’ pericarditis or myocarditis is as a post-viral phenomenon. That is, as a sequela of a viral infection. Why would you risk infection from a virus known to carry a relatively high risk of pericarditis and myocarditis as a part of its clinical picture? In your shoes, I would have been at the front of the queue for any vaccination offered to me to minimise my risk of COVID-related pericarditis / myocarditis. Any risks from the vaccine pale into insignificance in the context of the a COVID-19 infection.

[Chris_D]

Strangely this came up today, and we read that the statistics show that the risk of myocarditis/pericarditis caused by the vaccine is less than 30% of the risk of getting myocarditis/pericarditis from full-blown covid.

Reported rates of Myocarditis/pericarditis were 12 cases per MILLION people, and these were predominantly in the 12-39 age range where they had received 2 doses an mRNA vaccine (4.4 cases per million after single dose).

Those figures don’t exactly echo the emerging statistics I’ve seen.

In any case, even if it was a 0.00001% chance of developing pericarditis from getting vaccinated I’m not willing to take the risk. No way. Pericarditis is something I wouldn’t wish on my worst enemy.
In the space of 2 hours I went from a healthy 31yr old wondering where this chesty cough had come from while out riding my bike, to getting home from the bike ride and collapsing on the floor, to being rushed into ICU and pumped full of prednisone. Then spending the next 3 months in and out of ICU, losing half my bodyweight and having a feed-tube stuck up my nose to keep me from wasting away. Having a barrage of tests to try and establish if it was viral or systemic so I could be treated effectively. I never actually got a full diagnosis in the end, even after all those tests, some of which were damn painful, like the one where a needle the diameter of a fekin drinking straw was inserted into my hip to get a sample of bone marrow and the doctor didn’t inject enough anaesthetic before lancing me. Arrrrrg.
One of the worst aspects however, was the psychological impact; notwithstanding the fact that I was smack bang in the middle of 2 big supply contracts and negotiating for another and the residual anxiety about not having any redundancy in place for my involvement, it was also a strain on my parents who live in the UK and were worrying and trying to visit me in NL as much as they could. Lying helpless in a hospital bed with no strength to even take a few steps and having the worst fevers imaginable as well as the pain from an inflamed pericardium really takes its’ toll on the old noodle.
If I hadn’t had the support from my friend Laura and my parents I think I would have gone menkal.
For about a year after I left hosi I was also having nightmares involving choking and suffocation. Ptsd?
So no, while it’s an admittedly miniscule risk of developing myo/pericarditis one bout was more than enough thanks.

The commonest cause of ‘idiopathic’ pericarditis or myocarditis is as a post-viral phenomenon. That is, as a sequela of a viral infection. Why would you risk infection from a virus known to carry a relatively high risk of pericarditis and myocarditis as a part of its clinical picture? In your shoes, I would have been at the front of the queue for any vaccination offered to me to minimise my risk of COVID-related pericarditis / myocarditis. Any risks from the vaccine pale into insignificance in the context of the a COVID-19 infection.

I think your understanding and estimation of the associated risks are diametrically opposed to my own.

[BMWZ4MC]

Those figures don’t exactly echo the emerging statistics I’ve seen.

In any case, even if it was a 0.00001% chance of developing pericarditis from getting vaccinated I’m not willing to take the risk. No way. Pericarditis is something I wouldn’t wish on my worst enemy.
In the space of 2 hours I went from a healthy 31yr old wondering where this chesty cough had come from while out riding my bike, to getting home from the bike ride and collapsing on the floor, to being rushed into ICU and pumped full of prednisone. Then spending the next 3 months in and out of ICU, losing half my bodyweight and having a feed-tube stuck up my nose to keep me from wasting away. Having a barrage of tests to try and establish if it was viral or systemic so I could be treated effectively. I never actually got a full diagnosis in the end, even after all those tests, some of which were damn painful, like the one where a needle the diameter of a fekin drinking straw was inserted into my hip to get a sample of bone marrow and the doctor didn’t inject enough anaesthetic before lancing me. Arrrrrg.
One of the worst aspects however, was the psychological impact; notwithstanding the fact that I was smack bang in the middle of 2 big supply contracts and negotiating for another and the residual anxiety about not having any redundancy in place for my involvement, it was also a strain on my parents who live in the UK and were worrying and trying to visit me in NL as much as they could. Lying helpless in a hospital bed with no strength to even take a few steps and having the worst fevers imaginable as well as the pain from an inflamed pericardium really takes its’ toll on the old noodle.
If I hadn’t had the support from my friend Laura and my parents I think I would have gone menkal.
For about a year after I left hosi I was also having nightmares involving choking and suffocation. Ptsd?
So no, while it’s an admittedly miniscule risk of developing myo/pericarditis one bout was more than enough thanks.

The commonest cause of ‘idiopathic’ pericarditis or myocarditis is as a post-viral phenomenon. That is, as a sequela of a viral infection. Why would you risk infection from a virus known to carry a relatively high risk of pericarditis and myocarditis as a part of its clinical picture? In your shoes, I would have been at the front of the queue for any vaccination offered to me to minimise my risk of COVID-related pericarditis / myocarditis. Any risks from the vaccine pale into insignificance in the context of the a COVID-19 infection.

I think your understanding and estimation of the associated risks are diametrically opposed to my own.

Indeed they are, but I spent six years of my life at medical school gaining the skills required to interpret the evidence and I’ve spent almost twenty more practising those skills writing peer-reviewed research papers!

[Scubaregs]

Chris_D, has your decision not to take the vaccine been based on your own research, medical advice or both?

Not having a go in any way, shape or form, you do have a dilemma, just wondering how you have arrived at the decision that taking the vaccine constitutes more risk.

[mgrlane]

Chris_D, has your decision not to take the vaccine been based on your own research, medical advice or both?

Not having a go in any way, shape or form, you do have a dilemma, just wondering how you have arrived at the decision that taking the vaccine constitutes more risk.

My question is. Does having three (...four, five) doses of a vaccine that doesn't stop you getting covid reduce you risk of pericarditis or myocarditis post-viral? And if so by how much?

[Old-Duckman]

Okay, this thread has morphed so I don’t feel bad posting one more time.

I saw a woman make this statement in front of some group, I don’t know any details but she is so right on target with her logic...IMO her logic is indisputable. Her video probably went viral but just in case you haven’t seen it, this is what she said regarding the “vaccine “.

“Why do the protected need to be protected from the unprotected by forcing the unprotected to use the protection that didn’t protect the protected in the first place?”

[Chris_D]

Chris_D, has your decision not to take the vaccine been based on your own research, medical advice or both?

Not having a go in any way, shape or form, you do have a dilemma, just wondering how you have arrived at the decision that taking the vaccine constitutes more risk.

Purely my own research and ingrained/justifiable fear of contracting Pericarditis again.
Part of my professional background included training in risk inventorisation/analysis in the nuclear industry. If you have even a basic knowledge of how to calculate risk and draw a conclusion or define mitigation/s for any given risk factor then it can certainly be applied in this instance regardless of what 'official statistics' or 'professional advice' is being bandied about. I certainly do not trust any govenment advice and am sceptical of any government-sponsored medical experts.

i.e. why would I willingly put myself at a determinable (and increasingly determinable) risk of contracting Pericarditis or having some other adverse reaction from being vaccinated?

The argument that I could contract Pericarditis just as easily from being infected with COVID is theoretically true but in no way is statistically determinable due to simply too many dynamic and mitigating factors. For example, I'm fortunate to have my own business and work from home and have had limited physical contact with other people for the last 2 years. In effect I'm practically self-isolating apart from the occasional late night trip to the supermarket to do some grocery shopping and a daily bikeride/walk out into the fields near me.
Hence, it becomes a completely null argument to say that you are just as at-risk to contract Pericarditis from a COVID infection as being vaccinated and I would further propose that any published data supporting this argument is skewed and abstract at best.

Chris_D, has your decision not to take the vaccine been based on your own research, medical advice or both?

Not having a go in any way, shape or form, you do have a dilemma, just wondering how you have arrived at the decision that taking the vaccine constitutes more risk.

My question is. Does having three (...four, five) doses of a vaccine that doesn't stop you getting covid reduce you risk of pericarditis or myocarditis post-viral? And if so by how much?

Supposedly it does, but I don't trust any published data supporting that theory at the moment. Why should I?

Okay, this thread has morphed so I don’t feel bad posting one more time.

I saw a woman make this statement in front of some group, I don’t know any details but she is so right on target with her logic...IMO her logic is indisputable. Her video probably went viral but just in case you haven’t seen it, this is what she said regarding the “vaccine “.

“Why do the protected need to be protected from the unprotected by forcing the unprotected to use the protection that didn’t protect the protected in the first place?”

Right on!

[Scubaregs]

Jesus............

"I saw a woman make this statement in front of some group" Well researched then?

81419657-DF11-4D8B-8299-9C58444FE8B2_1_105_c.jpeg (40.07 KiB) Viewed 296 times

Try this. Put your hand an inch in front of your face and cough. Now repeat whilst wearing ANY mask. Then tell me what difference you noticed.

[Scubaregs]

Purely my own research and ingrained/justifiable fear of contracting Pericarditis again.
Part of my professional background included training in risk inventorisation/analysis in the nuclear industry. If you have even a basic knowledge of how to calculate risk and draw a conclusion or define mitigation/s for any given risk factor then it can certainly be applied in this instance regardless of what 'official statistics' or 'professional advice' is being bandied about. I certainly do not trust any govenment advice and am sceptical of any government-sponsored medical experts.

So basically you are saying governments and virologists worldwide are not to be trusted and your training in risk inventorisation/analysis in the nuclear industry allows you a better insight into the risk/benefit of the vaccine for your particular case?

[mgrlane]

Supposedly it does, but I don't trust any published data supporting that theory at the moment. Why should I?

I agree with you. There is so much BS data out there on either side of the argument. It's tough to know what to believe really.

It's a tough decision what ever you chose to do and I am just pleased (assuming you are in the UK) that you have the right to make a choice on opting in or out of the medical treatment.

Best of luck with your decision.

[Chris_D]

Purely my own research and ingrained/justifiable fear of contracting Pericarditis again.
Part of my professional background included training in risk inventorisation/analysis in the nuclear industry. If you have even a basic knowledge of how to calculate risk and draw a conclusion or define mitigation/s for any given risk factor then it can certainly be applied in this instance regardless of what 'official statistics' or 'professional advice' is being bandied about. I certainly do not trust any govenment advice and am sceptical of any government-sponsored medical experts.

So basically you are saying governments and virologists worldwide are not to be trusted and your training in risk inventorisation/analysis in the nuclear industry allows you a better insight into the risk/benefit of the vaccine for your particular case?

Yep.
Self-belief - it's a handy character trait.

[Scubaregs]

It certainly can be, not sure it helped on the Titanic.

[Chris_D]

Supposedly it does, but I don't trust any published data supporting that theory at the moment. Why should I?

I agree with you. There is so much BS data out there on either side of the argument. It's tough to know what to believe really.

It's a tough decision what ever you chose to do and I am just pleased (assuming you are in the UK) that you have the right to make a choice on opting in or out of the medical treatment.

Best of luck with your decision.

I'm in NL, where the rest of the world's arrogant know-alls are located.
(Zeg me dat dat niet klopt NL'ers? )

Thx.

[IRD]

I would agree with you arguments. But then we’d both be wrong.

[mgrlane]

I'm in NL, where the rest of the world's arrogant know-alls are located.

Oh dear,

Well I do feel sorry for you then. I have been watching dear Jacinda's draconian politics from a far and can't believe you are where you are.

The creation of the two-tier society over there alongside your Australian cousins makes me very fearful if they succeed.