Improving Harmon Kardon sound quality

[ori]

Think you got wires crossed. So far z4 ordered with HK system has arrived as ordered.
Some here think it isn’t a good system, but I and some others disagree and think it’s very good.

Think that’s harsh. I found the HK to be very good.
Also, from my understanding this is just presets and you can adjust this all yourself anyway?
Don’t get me wrong, I now want the presets and if there is someone local to me who can do it for me then I’ll ask them politely to do it.

Sorry if I've misunderstood, I thought there was some doubt about the available v as delivered sound quality and the need for system to be tweaked ?

[KrusteKlubba]

This makes interesting reading - thanks guys.

Just concerned using BimmerCode might cause warranty problems for my car if anything non-audio needs work.

Strange HK are better known for electronics and B&W are British HiFi speaker experts. On our soft top Audi, its B&O system appeals more to me than my Z4 HK. It’s got no fancy dsp modes. Low frequencies to me are better.

I was a bit dubious about the Z4s L7 being a bit emperor’s new trousers. 20 years ago I dropped significant spend on Lexicon surround processors with L7 as their USP. It was supposed to improve on the Dolby surround modes but even then my ears found little benefit.

[Ian J]

Why do they let the customer have the car in this condition ?
I would have thought it was in the best interest of BMW and HK to have the customer say "Wow" when they listen to the system.

I don't suppose that I would notice any difference as I only listen to Radio 5

[Swiftly]

Without playing a pink noise sample and doing some real time analysis it’s impossible to know what the change is doing , but if it makes folks happier them that’s all that matters..

Having now set up a DSP and all its parameters from scratch there’s a dichotomy between what the systems think should make a good sound and what folks think..

Obviously the hardware isn’t changed so all it can be put simply is tweaking the treble n bass..

Correct the hardware hasn't changed, but what has been noticeable and which has also been reported on various forums is that with every BMW over the air software update the audio sound quality has changed, usually for the better, so there is a definite relationship between software and hardware happening. No matter how many times I have tried, I have never been able to produce the same sound quality by just tweaking the graphic equaliser on its own, so I'm wondering if the presets also include some form of audio software algorithm. Either way my ears are more than happy with the end result and the sound currently being produced.

[Swiftly]

This makes interesting reading - thanks guys.

Just concerned using BimmerCode might cause warranty problems for my car if anything non-audio needs work.

Strange HK are better known for electronics and B&W are British HiFi speaker experts. On our soft top Audi, its B&O system appeals more to me than my Z4 HK. It’s got no fancy dsp modes. Low frequencies to me are better.

I was a bit dubious about the Z4s L7 being a bit emperor’s new trousers. 20 years ago I dropped significant spend on Lexicon surround processors with L7 as their USP. It was supposed to improve on the Dolby surround modes but even then my ears found little benefit.

I am not worried as the coding allows you to revert it back to the original code. An over the air update will also wipe the code and reinstate the original.

[B21]

These days DSPs are extremely powerful so it’s no surprise that tweaking and updated firmware can yield major perceived changes…

When I was doing the setup of the Match 7 DSP, the effect of adjustment of say a time delay just on one channel had a profound effect on perceived clarity and tone..

I re-baselined mine 3 times and each time it got better…same hardware just me tweaking it better..

So it’s all clever stuff.

Looked at newTis and they have certainly thrown the kitchen sink at this one..

As I say just surprised given that the settings for the B n W 16 speaker system settings works with a 10 speaker system..but hey ho..

[Swiftly]

As I say just surprised given that the settings for the B n W 16 speaker system settings works with a 10 speaker system..but hey ho..

The Harmon Kardon setup on the G29 actually has 12 speakers not 10, but what's an extra 2 speakers amongst friends

[B21]

As I say just surprised given that the settings for the B n W 16 speaker system settings works with a 10 speaker system..but hey ho..

The Harmon Kardon setup on the G29 actually has 12 speakers not 10, but what's an extra 2 speakers amongst friends

Ah yes found it now

E7850213-8FC2-43E8-8031-03D323B1C7FD.png (290.85 KiB) Viewed 664 times

[craig3.2]

Why do they let the customer have the car in this condition ?
I would have thought it was in the best interest of BMW and HK to have the customer say "Wow" when they listen to the system.

With my ancient hearing system I need all the help I can get.

You would think so, Ron,but maybe it's their belief at those in BMW that the system sounds amazing to them.
Have had the pleasure of listening to various car audio systems over the years and agree with Nick,etc that the Harmon Kardon set up can sound flat in some cars,no matter how much you change the eq settings.

Nice to see that you found something that takes it to the Next level,Nick
I meant to have a listen to it today.
Will look forward to hearing it next meet up

[craig3.2]

As I say just surprised given that the settings for the B n W 16 speaker system settings works with a 10 speaker system..but hey ho..

The Harmon Kardon setup on the G29 actually has 12 speakers not 10, but what's an extra 2 speakers amongst friends

Ah yes found it now

E7850213-8FC2-43E8-8031-03D323B1C7FD.png

Mr Google strikes again,lol.

[GoGirlZ4]

The Harmon Kardon setup on the G29 actually has 12 speakers not 10, but what's an extra 2 speakers amongst friends

Ah yes found it now

E7850213-8FC2-43E8-8031-03D323B1C7FD.png

Mr Google strikes again,lol.

So true and funny

[BrianD]

Without playing a pink noise sample and doing some real time analysis it’s impossible to know what the change is doing , but if it makes folks happier them that’s all that matters..

Having now set up a DSP and all its parameters from scratch there’s a dichotomy between what the systems think should make a good sound and what folks think..

Obviously the hardware isn’t changed so all it can be put simply is tweaking the treble n bass..

Correct the hardware hasn't changed, but what has been noticeable and which has also been reported on various forums is that with every BMW over the air software update the audio sound quality has changed, usually for the better, so there is a definite relationship between software and hardware happening. No matter how many times I have tried, I have never been able to produce the same sound quality by just tweaking the graphic equaliser on its own, so I'm wondering if the presets also include some form of audio software algorithm. Either way my ears are more than happy with the end result and the sound currently being produced.

An audio system algorithm makes sense, as I also had the same results by only adjusting the equalizer settings. Just a point worth mentioning, the coding doesn't reset the graphics equalizer, so do forget to make adjustments to these settings if you had reconfigured them.

[B21]

Thanks Swiftly, I will certainly be trying this as the sound quality from mine is poor for a supposedly quality car

Maybe the equalisation circuitry is optimised for ‘the yoof’ market?

Age induced hearing loss primarily affects higher frequencies and some part of the lower frequencies.

You may be correct, but dont forget that you are not that far behind me

Sadly that’s true and what’s even worse is that my hearing is probably older than yours

40 years of rushing around at high speed on various motorcycles means that when last measured (I needed this as part of my pilot medical)

I was about 5db down in the midrange , 20 db down at high frequencies and 10db down at low frequencies compared to what a person of my age should be at..

So one of the issues is what sounds ok to a 50 year old doesn’t sound the same to a 21 year old..

[B21]

Without playing a pink noise sample and doing some real time analysis it’s impossible to know what the change is doing , but if it makes folks happier them that’s all that matters..

Having now set up a DSP and all its parameters from scratch there’s a dichotomy between what the systems think should make a good sound and what folks think..

Obviously the hardware isn’t changed so all it can be put simply is tweaking the treble n bass..

Correct the hardware hasn't changed, but what has been noticeable and which has also been reported on various forums is that with every BMW over the air software update the audio sound quality has changed, usually for the better, so there is a definite relationship between software and hardware happening. No matter how many times I have tried, I have never been able to produce the same sound quality by just tweaking the graphic equaliser on its own, so I'm wondering if the presets also include some form of audio software algorithm. Either way my ears are more than happy with the end result and the sound currently being produced.

An audio system algorithm makes sense, as I also had the same results by only adjusting the equalizer settings. Just a point worth mentioning, the coding doesn't reset the graphics equalizer, so do forget to make adjustments to these settings if you had reconfigured them.

Actually it’s more complex than that Jim…

For each physical channel the amp has, the DSP can..

Adjust the time delay it takes for that speaker attached to that channel to reach your ears..

Adjust the phase of the signal from 0 to 360 degrees..

Adjust the frequency response of the output to offset any inadequacies in the speakers or their locations..aka tone

Adjust the sensitivity of the channel…aka fader / balance

The DSP can generate acoustic effects like concert hall, jazz club etc by using phase / frequency / time delay / volume

It can blend non physical channels to create for example centre speaker drivers

It can do very complex ‘loudness’ effects based on the user set volume..

In the case of the G29 then it’s also feeding all that both real and false engine noises in as well…

etc etc

[BrianD]

Correct the hardware hasn't changed, but what has been noticeable and which has also been reported on various forums is that with every BMW over the air software update the audio sound quality has changed, usually for the better, so there is a definite relationship between software and hardware happening. No matter how many times I have tried, I have never been able to produce the same sound quality by just tweaking the graphic equaliser on its own, so I'm wondering if the presets also include some form of audio software algorithm. Either way my ears are more than happy with the end result and the sound currently being produced.

An audio system algorithm makes sense, as I also had the same results by only adjusting the equalizer settings. Just a point worth mentioning, the coding doesn't reset the graphics equalizer, so do forget to make adjustments to these settings if you had reconfigured them.

Actually it’s more complex than that Jim…

For each physical channel the amp has, the DSP can..

Adjust the time delay it takes for that speaker attached to that channel to reach your ears..

Adjust the phase of the signal from 0 to 360 degrees..

Adjust the frequency response of the output to offset any inadequacies in the speakers or their locations..aka tone

Adjust the sensitivity of the channel…aka fader / balance

The DSP can generate acoustic effects like concert hall, jazz club etc by using phase / frequency / time delay / volume

It can blend non physical channels to create for example centre speaker drivers

It can do very complex ‘loudness’ effects based on the user set volume..

In the case of the G29 then it’s also feeding all that both real and false engine noises in as well…

etc etc

Firstly, my name is not Jim
Secondly, thanks for the science lecture
I am however, fully aware that the Bowers and Wilkins presets weren't designed to be used with the Harmon Kardon system. To be honest, all that the majority of members on this forum are interested in knowing, is that it appears to work, rather than the science theory behind why it shouldn't. This coding has also received good reviews when used on newer models across the BMW range that have a fitted H&K system. If someone didn't like the sound being produced, then they can revert back to the H&K preset, it's as simple as that