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R60BBA wrote: Sat Nov 30, 2024 9:28 am

BMWZ4MC wrote: Sat Nov 30, 2024 8:56 am I didn't plan to keep mine for eternity, but three things transpired - I rather like it; I haven't needed to sell it to experience other things (at least not so far); eternity flies by far faster than anticipated!

I suspect that a great many people would be unable to tell the difference between good replicas and genuine CSL wheels, and that the vast majority of those who can differentiate are unable to do so from the driver's seat of the car!

However, the question remains for the OP, what's more important to him - the aesthetic alone and having more money for other things now vs owning the lightest ever wheel in the CSL style and, with it being the genuine article, having a greater future resale value?

Not really, as mentioned (and speaking from experience) the weight difference is quite noticeable from behind the wheel - most people into their driving would notice this…and you could argue that most people who drive Z4Ms these days are into their driving.

The OP hasn’t indicated their budget either.

The original question was seeking the differences between genuine CSL wheels and replica wheels given the cost - which I’ve provided. Ultimately the decision is up to him.

You’re fortunate enough to fall into the one percent of one percent who both have the genuine article and have the ability to appreciate every nuance that delivers. I think you forget sometimes that not everyone is so connected to their car, even those who are into their driving.
As we both have said, the choice lies with the OP - aesthetic alone and having more money for other things now vs owning the lightest ever wheel in the CSL style and, with it being the genuine article, having a greater future resale value.

BMWZ4MC wrote: Sat Nov 30, 2024 9:43 am

R60BBA wrote: Sat Nov 30, 2024 9:28 am

BMWZ4MC wrote: Sat Nov 30, 2024 8:56 am I didn't plan to keep mine for eternity, but three things transpired - I rather like it; I haven't needed to sell it to experience other things (at least not so far); eternity flies by far faster than anticipated!

I suspect that a great many people would be unable to tell the difference between good replicas and genuine CSL wheels, and that the vast majority of those who can differentiate are unable to do so from the driver's seat of the car!

However, the question remains for the OP, what's more important to him - the aesthetic alone and having more money for other things now vs owning the lightest ever wheel in the CSL style and, with it being the genuine article, having a greater future resale value?

Not really, as mentioned (and speaking from experience) the weight difference is quite noticeable from behind the wheel - most people into their driving would notice this…and you could argue that most people who drive Z4Ms these days are into their driving.

The OP hasn’t indicated their budget either.

The original question was seeking the differences between genuine CSL wheels and replica wheels given the cost - which I’ve provided. Ultimately the decision is up to him.

You’re fortunate enough to fall into the one percent of one percent who have the genuine article and can appreciate every nuance that delivers. I think you forget sometimes that not everyone is so connect to their car, even those who are into their driving.
As we both have said, the choice lies with the OP - aesthetic alone and having more money for other things now vs owning the lightest ever wheel in the CSL style and, with it being the genuine article, having a greater future resale value.

I haven’t forgotten anything mate.

I’m speaking from experience. It sounds like you aren’t.

R60BBA wrote: Sat Nov 30, 2024 9:45 am

BMWZ4MC wrote: Sat Nov 30, 2024 9:43 am

R60BBA wrote: Sat Nov 30, 2024 9:28 am
Not really, as mentioned (and speaking from experience) the weight difference is quite noticeable from behind the wheel - most people into their driving would notice this…and you could argue that most people who drive Z4Ms these days are into their driving.

The OP hasn’t indicated their budget either.

The original question was seeking the differences between genuine CSL wheels and replica wheels given the cost - which I’ve provided. Ultimately the decision is up to him.

You’re fortunate enough to fall into the one percent of one percent who have the genuine article and can appreciate every nuance that delivers. I think you forget sometimes that not everyone is so connect to their car, even those who are into their driving.
As we both have said, the choice lies with the OP - aesthetic alone and having more money for other things now vs owning the lightest ever wheel in the CSL style and, with it being the genuine article, having a greater future resale value.

I haven’t forgotten anything mate.

I’m speaking from experience. It sounds like you aren’t.

Hahaha

Well, whoever buys genuine CSLs seem to not be able to avoid curbing them as every set I have seen either need a refurb or just had them done

When I was looking to refurb my 108s I was getting silly money quotes so considered buying a new set (that would hopefully not have the same corrosion issues).

I like the look of CSLs and found Apex Wheels ARC-8 were very similar and high quality.

So if you're looking for the aesthetic but better quality than reps these should be worth pricing up. Really good value in the USA but import duties put the price up here.

Thanks all. Good feedback.

I’m looking at a set at the mo that has one small patch of corrosion on the rear of one wheel. Also 4mm conti sports for just under £3,000.

Just weighing up whether it’s worth it.

Not only are OEM CSLs lighter than reps, they're a lot lighter than 224s which are a heavy wheel.

Front: CSL 22.9 lbs vs 224 26.8 lbs
Rear: CSL 24.7 lbs vs 224 30.1 lbs

I replaced my 224s with Apex ARC-8s primarily because the ARC-8s are lighter - the looks are just a bonus. The difference in the drive is immediately obvious - the car feels much lighter on its feet.

BMWZ4MC wrote: Sat Nov 30, 2024 8:02 am

R60BBA wrote: Sat Nov 30, 2024 7:53 am

BMWZ4MC wrote: Sat Nov 30, 2024 2:22 am Which will you feel more, the greater weight of replica wheels or the markedly greater expense of genuine wheels? Therein lies the solution to your conundrum

As mentioned, Genuine CSL wheels hold their money much better than replicas.

Although the initial up front cost is more, when the time comes to move the car on you will most certainly be able to sell the wheels for what you paid for them (or you may even make some change).

Replicas are practically worthless once you buy them.

It really isn’t a conundrum.

On that basis, the absence of a conundrum only holds true if you plan to sell the car or change to different wheels in the future. With a finite budget for modifications, at the present moment in time (and indeed always if the car is a ‘keeper’ and any mods with it) the question as asked remains apposite
As a point of reference, I’ve had my Zed for more than 15 years and I’m keeping the car and all of the 16 wheels I have for it

Fancied a 16 wheeler when I was young. Never had a big enough drive though.

plenty wrote: Sat Nov 30, 2024 12:46 pm Not only are OEM CSLs lighter than reps, they're a lot lighter than 224s which are a heavy wheel.

Front: CSL 22.9 lbs vs 224 26.8 lbs
Rear: CSL 24.7 lbs vs 224 30.1 lbs

I replaced my 224s with Apex ARC-8s primarily because the ARC-8s are lighter - the looks are just a bonus. The difference in the drive is immediately obvious - the car feels much lighter on its feet.

Did you go 18”?

Nuts wrote: Sat Nov 30, 2024 2:22 pm Did you go 18”?

I did. 17s are even lighter and more sidewall makes for better road drive, but it's getting hard to find tyres in 17. I prioritise ride and handling over looks, and wouldn't go larger than 18 personally.

I dont think any wheels made in 2003-04 will still be in perfect condition after being used. That being said ive had mine since 2012 and had them refurbed. I got them done in the original finish, 12-13 years later they need doing again as it doesn't last forever. Especially if you use the acid cleaners I have found this to speed up deterioration of lacquer and on normal and diamond cut so I ceramic coat instead now and dont use acid cleaners.

At least they aren't diamond cut so having them refurbed isnt really an issue as your not removing material.

Had mine on the M coupe and M roady.

BMW Z4M Coupe CSL wheels by Tom Scott, on Flickr

BMW Z4M Roadster, Tatton Park by Tom Scott, on Flickr

Honestly I think 224s are about the most boring wheel designs ever made for an M car and they dont do the car justice at all. Ive had them in silver, grey, satin grey and didnt like any of them.

As said the CSLs in person are very obvious the reps regardless of brand for some reason dont look like CSLs, then there is the weight unsprung weight at the wheel is probably the worst modification you can do.

Atomics seems to be the most common



BMW Z4M CSL wheel strobist by Tom Scott, on Flickr

The stem into the rim is different, seems pretty anal but in person and on the car changes how aggressive the offset looks.



BMW Z4M Roadster, Tatton Park by Tom Scott, on Flickr

The above is no contest, those arent atomic but suppose make your own mind up!

I like the OE+ look so the CSL was the only choice for me and personally love them!

There is a lot of CSLs are overdone blah blah but in the 13 years ive had my cars and all the meets and mostly specific Z meets ive only seen a handful with real ones and mine always get a lot of attention.

I was just lucky to find a set the guy was tracking his CSL and wanted something smaller to reduce tyre costs so got them for £800 way before anyone really knew how rare they are and now BMW dont make them, if you want them I suppose you pay for them.

Obviously BMW made spares and for a long time you could only buy them with a CSL Vin. There were 1383 worldwide and 422 came to the UK. Not sure how many they made but its not a huge amount for a production car hence the price I suppose.

There are two versions of this wheel

The original CSL wheels are called style 127M:
235 front width (35), wheel offset 44 - 265 rear width (30) - wheel offset 27

The ZCP wheels are slightly different, called style 163M:
225 front width (40), wheel offset 47 - 255 rear width (35) - wheel offset 27

The E92 also had CSL style wheels and these were 359M, not entirely sure if these were the same on the 1M.

Anyway regardless, to most its about looks and it is for me I dont track the car so the weight isnt really the plus for me. That being said there is a lot of 18 vs 19 and I find no difference of the 224 vs my CSLs. I did notice that the car was a little more agile on turn in but it's not the end of the world.

Just love the look and they get a lot of comments and generally its a talking point at meets etc as many expect them to be reps.

Well I've learnt something today - OE CSLs are very light. But I doubt my driving ability is such that I'd notice the difference.

I suppose they fall into the same category as Aero sills and Roadster side covers. They may be expensive but you'll always get your money back so if they are what you want, why not?

Nice wheels and suit the Z well. When you could still get them new for comfortably under 2k they made a lot of sense.

At the prices asked these days, I’d just buy some apex arc8s. ‘Similar’ look, weight difference may slightly favor the apex and they’ll be brand spanking new.

I like my 224s

beanie wrote: Thu Dec 05, 2024 10:06 pm Nice wheels and suit the Z well. When you could still get them new for comfortably under 2k they made a lot of sense.

At the prices asked these days, I’d just buy some apex arc8s. ‘Similar’ look, weight difference may slightly favor the apex and they’ll be brand spanking new.

Out of interest are the CSLs cast or forged ?