E89 Prices

[Busterboo]

For me, the problem is not price, but car: the 35iS. I believe that only 450 were exported to the UK and finding a low-mileage one now is difficult.

Just as bad is finding an alternative. I nearly bought an M4 Convertible Competition Package with 5k miles on the clock and may still, but it's not really what I what.

[DaveP]

For me, the problem is not price, but car: the 35iS. I believe that only 450 were exported to the UK and finding a low-mileage one now is difficult.

Just as bad is finding an alternative. I nearly bought an M4 Convertible Competition Package with 5k miles on the clock and may still, but it's not really what I what.

There are 376 examples of the 35is still registered, with a few more SORN. Unless you really wanted the 35is, you'd surely be better to buy a 35i and chuck a map on it? Downside is that there aren't loads of MSport 35i models either. There look to be about 1,000 35i/is examples of all variations currently registered.
https://www.howmanyleft.co.uk/vehicle/b ... e35is_auto

It really is a bit of a waiting game, as someone who's in the market for at 35i/is. It's the same story as the E85 - so many small-engined examples were made, that the 35s tend not to be particularly well known or thought of.

I'm also going to look at an M4 convertible at a dealer near me, but my preference would be an E89. M4s are ten-a-penny, and people seem to own them a couple of years before moving them on. Whereas I suspect that folk with 35i/is models tend to hang onto them a bit longer. No data to back that up, just a hunch.

[B21]

For me, the problem is not price, but car: the 35iS. I believe that only 450 were exported to the UK and finding a low-mileage one now is difficult.

Just as bad is finding an alternative. I nearly bought an M4 Convertible Competition Package with 5k miles on the clock and may still, but it's not really what I what.

There are 376 examples of the 35is still registered, with a few more SORN. Unless you really wanted the 35is, you'd surely be better to buy a 35i and chuck a map on it? Downside is that there aren't loads of MSport 35i models either. There look to be about 1,000 35i/is examples of all variations currently registered.
https://www.howmanyleft.co.uk/vehicle/b ... e35is_auto

It really is a bit of a waiting game, as someone who's in the market for at 35i/is. It's the same story as the E85 - so many small-engined examples were made, that the 35s tend not to be particularly well known or thought of.

I'm also going to look at an M4 convertible at a dealer near me, but my preference would be an E89. M4s are ten-a-penny, and people seem to own them a couple of years before moving them on. Whereas I suspect that folk with 35i/is models tend to hang onto them a bit longer. No data to back that up, just a hunch.

Looks like the attrition rate is about 4 cars a year (written off?) ..another 90 years and none left..

I assume the attrition rate accelerates as rust / not economic to repair becomes key factors

[DaveP]

My frustration with looking for a 35i/is over the past few months is how few cars seem to fall into the sweet spot of the middle ground.

I could have my pick of early 'SE' spec cars with low mileage at £10k, or high miler M-Sports at £11-12k. Plenty of low-miler later cars sitting unsold at silly money too (£16k+).

There seems to be very little in that sweet spot in the middle. An M-Sport with 70k or so should be around ~£13k give or take, but they just don't seem to be getting sold.

[B21]

My frustration with looking for a 35i/is over the past few months is how few cars seem to fall into the sweet spot of the middle ground.

I could have my pick of early 'SE' spec cars with low mileage at £10k, or high miler M-Sports at £11-12k. Plenty of low-miler later cars sitting unsold at silly money too (£16k+).

There seems to be very little in that sweet spot in the middle. An M-Sport with 70k or so should be around ~£13k give or take, but they just don't seem to be getting sold.

I think there's a bit of emotion of cars in the 70k-100k area..given the wide variation of when things fail on the N55 E89s it seems people are adverse to embracing that mileage segment..

Surprised at how many poorly spec N54 there are..

[DaveP]

My frustration with looking for a 35i/is over the past few months is how few cars seem to fall into the sweet spot of the middle ground.

I could have my pick of early 'SE' spec cars with low mileage at £10k, or high miler M-Sports at £11-12k. Plenty of low-miler later cars sitting unsold at silly money too (£16k+).

There seems to be very little in that sweet spot in the middle. An M-Sport with 70k or so should be around ~£13k give or take, but they just don't seem to be getting sold.

I think there's a bit of emotion of cars in the 70k-100k area..given the wide variation of when things fail on the N55 E89s it seems people are adverse to embracing that mileage segment..

Surprised at how many poorly spec N54 there are..

I'd consider one in that neck of the woods at the right price (i.e. leaving me enough to fix the big ticket N54 issues), but there seem to be a lot of dreamers selling 35s right now given the length the Autotrader ads have been up.

Almost all that are coming up in my saved search (under £18k, under 80k miles) have been advertised since before October last year, with no movement in price.

[B21]

My frustration with looking for a 35i/is over the past few months is how few cars seem to fall into the sweet spot of the middle ground.

I could have my pick of early 'SE' spec cars with low mileage at £10k, or high miler M-Sports at £11-12k. Plenty of low-miler later cars sitting unsold at silly money too (£16k+).

There seems to be very little in that sweet spot in the middle. An M-Sport with 70k or so should be around ~£13k give or take, but they just don't seem to be getting sold.

I think there's a bit of emotion of cars in the 70k-100k area..given the wide variation of when things fail on the N55 E89s it seems people are adverse to embracing that mileage segment..

Surprised at how many poorly spec N54 there are..

I'd consider one in that neck of the woods at the right price (i.e. leaving me enough to fix the big ticket N54 issues), but there seem to be a lot of dreamers selling 35s right now given the length the Autotrader ads have been up.

Almost all that are coming up in my saved search (under £18k, under 80k miles) have been advertised since before October last year, with no movement in price.

There are two (at least) contradictions…

Some folks seeing other E89s at higher prices assume that’s where the market is..not realising many haven’t shifted in months and in some cases years..

Since many of these cars are garage queens the owners don’t feel the need to offload them quickly given how prices were say 50% higher three years ago..

A couple I looked at in the past were grest examples where the owners had lost their medicals..

Waiting for someone to die / taken into care is one strategy..

[Gwest44]

There are 2 35is' that have recently been listed on Autorader at what seems like sensible money - the one that's just tipped 100k is the first sub £10k example I've seen and the ither is the cheapest valencia example I've ever seen.

Screenshot_20250206_134252_Auto Trader.jpg (94.91 KiB) Viewed 1533 times

[Pondrew]

Almost all that are coming up in my saved search (under £18k, under 80k miles) have been advertised since before October last year, with no movement in price.

That seems to be a common issue with these type of cars. Many, many are 'fun' cars, not dailies. So therefore most will have been bought with cash as a frivolous toy. Therefore, people wishing to sell are not in any hurry as there is no financial pressure on the sale.
There are other forces at play aswell. Many people only keep these cars for a short time, so will have paid top money up until very recently. So they don't want to take a huge hit on the price for a 'fun' car. Many are also still living in 2022/23 price-land and refusing to give in to the crash in the market.

I lost 20% on the sale of our E89 this week, in 12 months. And yet, it was still deemed to be expensive! All because I paid 2023 prices in Jan 2024.

You see a lot of adverts on the forum similar to "if I don't get good money I will put it away and use it next year" type of attitude. As the market stands that attitude will not sell anything.

All my opinion from what I see.

[DaveP]

There are 2 35is' that have recently been listed on Autorader at what seems like sensible money - the one that's just tipped 100k is the first sub £10k example I've seen and the ither is the cheapest valencia example I've ever seen.

Screenshot_20250206_134252_Auto Trader.jpg

That first one is actually an auction on a third-party auction site. I reckon it should probably go for a smidge over £10k, but not by much.

If it goes for much less, it's a real level-setter for the 35i market.

[DaveP]

Almost all that are coming up in my saved search (under £18k, under 80k miles) have been advertised since before October last year, with no movement in price.

That seems to be a common issue with these type of cars. Many, many are 'fun' cars, not dailies. So therefore most will have been bought with cash as a frivolous toy. Therefore, people wishing to sell are not in any hurry as there is no financial pressure on the sale.
There are other forces at play aswell. Many people only keep these cars for a short time, so will have paid top money up until very recently. So they don't want to take a huge hit on the price for a 'fun' car. Many are also still living in 2022/23 price-land and refusing to give in to the crash in the market.

I lost 20% on the sale of our E89 this week, in 12 months. And yet, it was still deemed to be expensive! All because I paid 2023 prices in Jan 2024.

You see a lot of adverts on the forum similar to "if I don't get good money I will put it away and use it next year" type of attitude. As the market stands that attitude will not sell anything.

All my opinion from what I see.

If there's no financial pressure on the sale, why are they selling?

There are lots of cars that are bought as toys, like Boxsters, which don't seem to hang around as long as 35i/is models on Autotrader.

I just don't think it stacks up.

[derin100]

An interesting mix of opinions:

On the one hand, people saying are they want a 35i/35is but that they can’t find one and that there aren’t many available (because there never really were ‘that’ many?).

Yet, at the same time, others saying the ones that are available are “too expensive”.
What they perhaps should be saying is that “they don’t want to pay those prices” not that the cars aren’t inherently worth that.

Furthermore, there’s acknowledgment that people tend to buy these cars not out of necessity but rather as a ‘toy’ to treat themselves. Inevitably, with two-seater sports cars this is going to be a highly seasonally dependent phenomenon.

It’s been a long cold winter…it always is! Therefore, a plausible explanation as to why the ones that have been sitting around for months for sale, over the winter is…just that!

As the days get longer and warmer and potential buyers come out of hibernation, if they want that ‘particular toy’ a couple of £K (which is what seems to be being quibbled about?) more for the toy that the really want isn’t really going to make very much difference.

The reasons IMHO that the ones above are so relatively low in price is that 1) they are leggy 2) the seller is trying to or wants to sell them at the wrong time of year e.g a dealer under pressure of needing a turnover.

There’s also talk of this notional “crash” in prices. However, particularly for good examples of rare cars, I don’t think this stands up. I sold both my E85 Z4M and Alpina Roadster S for good money last summer because they were both very good examples…with low mileage…and at the right time of year! I think those are the crucial factors at this end of the Z4 spectrum, not whether something is a couple of £k one way or the other.

Surely, it’s just simple supply and demand?

[DaveP]

An interesting mix of opinions:

On the one hand, people saying are they want a 35i/35is but that they can’t find one and that there aren’t many available (because there never really were ‘that’ many?).

Yet, at the same time, others saying the ones that are available are “too expensive”.
What they perhaps should be saying is that “they don’t want to pay those prices” not that the cars aren’t inherently worth that.

Furthermore, there’s acknowledgment that people tend to buy these cars not out of necessity but rather as a ‘toy’ to treat themselves. Inevitably, with two-seater sports cars this is going to be a highly seasonally dependent phenomenon.

It’s been a long cold winter…it always is! Therefore, a plausible explanation as to why the ones that have been sitting around for months for sale, over the winter is…just that!

As the days get longer and warmer and potential buyers come out of hibernation, if they want that ‘particular toy’ a couple of £K (which is what seems to be being quibbled about?) more for the toy that the really want isn’t really going to make very much difference.

The reasons IMHO that the ones above are so relatively low in price is that 1) they are leggy 2) the seller is trying to or wants to sell them at the wrong time of year e.g a dealer under pressure of needing a turnover.

There’s also talk of this notional “crash” in prices. However, particularly for good examples of rare cars, I don’t think this stands up. I sold both my E85 Z4M and Alpina Roadster S for good money last summer because they were both very good examples…with low mileage…and at the right time of year! I think those are the crucial factors at this end of the Z4 spectrum, not whether something is a couple of £k one way or the other.

Surely, it’s just simple supply and demand?

Two things:
1. Last summer you would have been able to ask decent money for those cars. In the past 6 months, the used car market has absolutely nosedived.
2. I don't think the outright price is a problem. It's more the spread of pricing. I've been offered two early 35i SEs with low-ish miles for £10k (one for slightly less). It suddenly becomes very hard to justify a car that's a few years younger with different bumpers being almost double that. When even those early SE cars aren't selling, it's a tough one to explain why those £16-18k cars are worth what is being asked.

Some might suggest that scarcity should drive up the prices of those late M-Sport cars. The problem with that is that people were saying the same thing about the Z4M, relative to the cooking E85s/86s. The bottom has absolutely fallen out of the Z4M market in recent times.
https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/200 ... m-coupe-11

Auctions are the litmus test for all of these things. If there are enough people who want to buy something, it will drive the auction prices up. That 56k-mile Z4M coupe linked above was being talked up at silly prices two years back. It went for £15k when push came to shove in an auction.

Two years ago, it would have made those silly numbers. https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/200 ... 4m-coupe-6

[B21]

In some ways I’m surprised selling prices not asking prices are so high…any E89 with roof problems can be a multi thousand pound problem in the hands of the wrong garage and an N54 can be even worse…

On the FB side of town not a day goes by with yet another roof issue…

The N54 issues tend to be less binary..slow fall off in performance, increase in rattles, increas leakage etc..

[Pondrew]

Two things:
1. Last summer you would have been able to ask decent money for those cars. In the past 6 months, the used car market has absolutely nosedived.
2. I don't think the outright price is a problem. It's more the spread of pricing. I've been offered two early 35i SEs with low-ish miles for £10k (one for slightly less). It suddenly becomes very hard to justify a car that's a few years younger with different bumpers being almost double that. When even those early SE cars aren't selling, it's a tough one to explain why those £16-18k cars are worth what is being asked.

Some might suggest that scarcity should drive up the prices of those late M-Sport cars. The problem with that is that people were saying the same thing about the Z4M, relative to the cooking E85s/86s. The bottom has absolutely fallen out of the Z4M market in recent times.
https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/200 ... m-coupe-11

Auctions are the litmus test for all of these things. If there are enough people who want to buy something, it will drive the auction prices up. That 56k-mile Z4M coupe linked above was being talked up at silly prices two years back. It went for £15k when push came to shove in an auction.

Two years ago, it would have made those silly numbers. https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/200 ... 4m-coupe-6

But of course you have your 'buying' hat on. It's always funny how our attitudes change slightly when we have our 'selling' hat on.

You said yourself that you thought my recently sold car was expensive, yet I thought it was a great price.
And I sold it (in the middle of Winter) for good money!