Fantastic perspective Tom - thank you sharing - and your car looks absolutely stunning!tomscott wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2024 12:26 pm E85/6s have been flatlining for about 10 years, pre covid you could pick up 100k 3.0 for sub 3k. The likes of Joel got his YouTube career going off cars like this so I don't think they have flatlined they have increased in value over covid as they are the sports car bargain of the car world really. The appreciation wasn't huge tho and the edge cases are going for good money but non seem to be shifting. Anything in the M world over the 23k bracket is sat and has sat for a long long time.
From the appreciation stand point they haven't moved half as well as other brands. Me and my dad bought a 996 4S convertible in a rare colour combo with 90k right at the beginning of covid for 18.5k had all the checks and all the right work done it just needed cosmetics moved it on 2 years later for £26k. It wasn't to make money just so happened the market went crazy, it was just for fun project and we really enjoyed the car, my dad just decided he wanted something else and got a 981 GTS instead so we sold out and split.
Now that all cars are depreciating Z4s seem to have taken a bit of a dive and also its because people are back to their usual and they are being offloaded but I don't think were quite where we were.
In terms of buying it depends on how you see these cars that are nearly 22 years old. From what I see there are a quite a few camps. People who buy cheap for a season and Z4s are super seasonal (which is why there are so many high owner cars), maybe for a road trip then ditch it. Enthusiasts who want a straight 6 two seater for the weekend and like tinkering probably a second or third car, people who buy these as their only car and pile on the miles, there seem to be loads of people buying, fixing and shifting in the Z4 space atm and the guys who like garage queens and pamper them.
From the milage perspective, if you are happy with accepting the cars as they are and enjoying them because they are cheap and it doesn't make financial sense to get them back to showroom. Or whether like me, im quite anal and mainly take the car to shows, it depends which side of the coin you land on.
Il also preempt this by saying not all high milage cars are the same, the ones that have been well cared are different and if you buy on condition you can get a bargain. It is quite hard to find good condition cars that have good history these days.
I don't think its mechanics that people always worry about with 100+K cars its all the other little bits. Personally I hate all the tactile areas of a car being warn and in poor condition, its the main experience you get at the helm and how you control the car and for me it directly affects the experience of driving the car.
Zs aren't known for having the most quality materials and the interiors do wear especially when lots of small journeys have been done. Seat bolsters - you can repair the leather pretty easily but the foam compresses, deforms and inevitably needs replacing, same with the seat bottom, mines done 80k and compared to the passenger side its a noticeable difference.
Here's an example bart did recently, amazing work on the leather and recolour but the foam is past its best and needs replacing.
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Things you touch like the steering wheel and button surrounds, soft touch plastics that wear horribly. You can get rid of the coating and then spray them as a DIY but I haven't seen any that look right yet. You can also wrap them in 3m grey matt lam which I have seen some decent results from. But if you were to buy some new surrounds they are like £200 then the buttons are another £250.
My cigarette lighter was broken because the clip its secured with isn't very strong and over the years pulling a plug in and out of it eventually the clip snapped. A replacement panel second hand in good condition was £100. Because mines an M and is soft touch trying to find one in good condition without the soft touch plastic marked or warn was quite difficult.
Most enthusiasts like their car to look good and paint is a key aspect. The Z does suffer more from road rash because it's so low, front end and the side skirts. You can have them repainted cheaply where the panels aren't taken off but it's not going to be the best job and you tend to find water will get under the lacquer and peel over time so its a trade off cost to quality. To have a front end respray done properly is in the region of £1-2k bonnet, bumper and wings.
Trying to find a Z without wear marks on the roof is so difficult too, mine is through the mohair on both sides because it's rubbed against the rubber seal at the back over the years unfortunately it was like this when I bought it but its a 1-4 and finding another was going to be difficult. You can find second hand replacements for £250 but I haven't found one worth buying yet, the only one I have seen worth buying was £600 which was perfect and then if your not handy it needs fitting.
The other elements as have been talked about in loads of threads is stuff like suspension, the Sachs struts are rubbish and leak air so many don't think they need replacing. So many Zs are known to have broken spring issues but it's more likely that the struts have failed and the car is only really on the springs. Regardless of age and milage all E85/6s will need the struts replacing at this point.
When you're talking about cars that are 3-8k then sorting these small bits that all Zs suffer with can rack up pretty quickly and its a reason they are cheap to begin with.
I also think this is why lower milage cars are appealing. They tend to have been used less so these bits are nicer to start with, yes inevitably you will get more depreciation if you end up using it as intended but its harder to sort a car that is already well used than get a lighter used car back up to showroom.
Mines not low milage but not high either averaging 4.5k since it was new. Still looks in pretty good condition.
BMW Z4M Roadster, Zedfest 2023 by Tom Scott, on Flickr
BMW Z4M Roadster Zedfest by Tom Scott, on Flickr
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(Removed the stickers from the previous owner now!)
People never talk about the money they have spent on their cars... because its a false economy and you will never ever make money when you consider, tax insurance and maintenance.
Im in about 20k on my Z4M. I paid 14.5 for it in 2019 with 63k on the clock, its a rare combo being 1-4 in the uk and I bought it so I could enjoy, its in good enough condition that I could also show it but it also needed some work. Ive done 17k in it so far and current plans are a sus refresh, bearings, mounts and a little bit of a freshen up paint wise it will probably be in the 25k cost space.
WBAC doesn't mean much but they offered me 4.5k for it last week. I laughed and deleted the email.
That being said the trade in market has fallen off a cliff, probably because with decreasing values a lot of dealerships are dealing with massive depreciation of their stock. Z4Ms under 80K are going for 14-28k on autotrader still tho... it would be interesting to see what they actually sell for.
Another element specific to Ms is the cost of maintenance and tax that's another reason they have been cheap and remain cheap. For what the Z offers in M spec for 14k is ridiculous value for money really. You would need to double plus that to buy anything in the Porsche space that also doesn't need 10k spent in the near future.
Thankfully im not interested in selling mine but it does lead to some depressing figures.
Suppose the moral is which ever end you buy from they always need something
I think anybody who buys a Z4 thinking its going to make them fortune in appreciation has maybe missed the point!! I agree that they are fantastic value for money and I think when you look at £/smile they're hard to beat
One thing I found was that many cars, though having a full service history, were simply not maintained regularly enough - I'm betting its a case of the "Next Service Due" misleading owners - I saw cars that were advertised as having comprehensive servicing only to discover the oil hadn't been changed in 5 years...!! I think I read somewhere that BMW advises annual oil changes...??
