So pleased we are in harmony …
The Apex Arc-8s may get the same treatment when it’s tyre change time…
So pleased we are in harmony …
So when, and if...which hopefully will happen, you get this car running correctly, do you have any idea how long it will run for until it goes out of tune, or will it go out...? I'd imagine it will be on a knife edge all the time being in such a high state of tune despite the bigger blowers and supporting mods, 500bhp is a lot, especially if you're booting it, although I can't really imagine where you can use that sort of shove for any more than the odd brief spurt on a very suitable day, so perhaps that will keep some longevity if I'm right, which I'm probably not, but anyway, what's your take on it staying in tune...?B21 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 09, 2023 9:16 am So as we passed 500 BHP we’ve encountered a persistent misfire on cylinder no 6 around 6k as we do the tuning runs…
Everywhere else the engine is close to perfection..smoother in the low register..spins like a turbine in the mid range and lights up like a rocket at the top end..
Usual suspects have been addressed typical with tuning a N54..
We transposed coil no 6 with 1..swapped out stock Bosch 3 points plug for NGK stage 1 colder, narrowed gap from 30 thou to 22 thou…no change..
My tuner was sure that maybe injector no 6 was problematic as he says ‘it’s the most difficult one to get right’..
So yesterday with much cursing I removed no 6 injector and then had to battle to ensure the new Teflon seal got seated well enough to resear the injector..
As can be sensed the injector was in perfect condition..
My tuners comments were..
My suspicion is that the engine is picking up noise from somewhere and interpreting it as knock. We can confirm that with these channels. Finding the cause of the noise is more tricky.
The DMF is one possibility but replacing that is expensive and has no guarantee of fixing anything at all.
It's common on engines with aftermarket pistons as this changes the noise characteristics but it's also seen often with people that use HPFP overdrive kits. It can also be something as simple as a heatshield rattling against the engine or the exhaust contacting the subframe and passing vibrations up to the block.
So my tuner has given me an extra ‘fix’ for MHD to do extended logging…
On the forums there have been quite a few cylinder no 6 issues with tuned N54s..the dual mass flywheel has been found to be a common issue..hence the debate,,,
I’m looking at the M series S55 DMF as it’s rated for 500 BHP in parallel …
They are the 3 stages of knock detection for cylinder 6. That should tell us exactly what the DME is picking up that causes the fuel cut and misfire.
This is an interesting point. When I was speaking to Birds deciding which version Zed to buy, they told me that in their experience highly tuned up cars like those with the N54 or the F80 M4 never run right and there is always some issue. Whether this is right or wrong I don't know but it's interesting to see how this goes.john-e89 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 09, 2023 8:21 pmSo when, and if...which hopefully will happen, you get this car running correctly, do you have any idea how long it will run for until it goes out of tune, or will it go out...? I'd imagine it will be on a knife edge all the time being in such a high state of tune despite the bigger blowers and supporting mods, 500bhp is a lot, especially if you're booting it, although I can't really imagine where you can use that sort of shove for any more than the odd brief spurt on a very suitable day, so perhaps that will keep some longevity if I'm right, which I'm probably not, but anyway, what's your take on it staying in tune...?B21 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 09, 2023 9:16 am So as we passed 500 BHP we’ve encountered a persistent misfire on cylinder no 6 around 6k as we do the tuning runs…
Everywhere else the engine is close to perfection..smoother in the low register..spins like a turbine in the mid range and lights up like a rocket at the top end..
Usual suspects have been addressed typical with tuning a N54..
We transposed coil no 6 with 1..swapped out stock Bosch 3 points plug for NGK stage 1 colder, narrowed gap from 30 thou to 22 thou…no change..
My tuner was sure that maybe injector no 6 was problematic as he says ‘it’s the most difficult one to get right’..
So yesterday with much cursing I removed no 6 injector and then had to battle to ensure the new Teflon seal got seated well enough to resear the injector..
As can be sensed the injector was in perfect condition..
My tuners comments were..
My suspicion is that the engine is picking up noise from somewhere and interpreting it as knock. We can confirm that with these channels. Finding the cause of the noise is more tricky.
The DMF is one possibility but replacing that is expensive and has no guarantee of fixing anything at all.
It's common on engines with aftermarket pistons as this changes the noise characteristics but it's also seen often with people that use HPFP overdrive kits. It can also be something as simple as a heatshield rattling against the engine or the exhaust contacting the subframe and passing vibrations up to the block.
So my tuner has given me an extra ‘fix’ for MHD to do extended logging…
On the forums there have been quite a few cylinder no 6 issues with tuned N54s..the dual mass flywheel has been found to be a common issue..hence the debate,,,
I’m looking at the M series S55 DMF as it’s rated for 500 BHP in parallel …
They are the 3 stages of knock detection for cylinder 6. That should tell us exactly what the DME is picking up that causes the fuel cut and misfire.
Genuine interested question, personally I can't think of a much less suitable car to take to 500+, BUT, that's just me, were all different, and I'm all for following ones dreams so I'm simply curious as to what the up keep of such an engine will be. Obvs the bottom end will be fine, it's the rest I'm thinking will need constant fettling, which may or not be an issue.
I think there’s two separate issues that you touch on..john-e89 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 09, 2023 8:21 pmSo when, and if...which hopefully will happen, you get this car running correctly, do you have any idea how long it will run for until it goes out of tune, or will it go out...? I'd imagine it will be on a knife edge all the time being in such a high state of tune despite the bigger blowers and supporting mods, 500bhp is a lot, especially if you're booting it, although I can't really imagine where you can use that sort of shove for any more than the odd brief spurt on a very suitable day, so perhaps that will keep some longevity if I'm right, which I'm probably not, but anyway, what's your take on it staying in tune...?B21 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 09, 2023 9:16 am So as we passed 500 BHP we’ve encountered a persistent misfire on cylinder no 6 around 6k as we do the tuning runs…
Everywhere else the engine is close to perfection..smoother in the low register..spins like a turbine in the mid range and lights up like a rocket at the top end..
Usual suspects have been addressed typical with tuning a N54..
We transposed coil no 6 with 1..swapped out stock Bosch 3 points plug for NGK stage 1 colder, narrowed gap from 30 thou to 22 thou…no change..
My tuner was sure that maybe injector no 6 was problematic as he says ‘it’s the most difficult one to get right’..
So yesterday with much cursing I removed no 6 injector and then had to battle to ensure the new Teflon seal got seated well enough to resear the injector..
As can be sensed the injector was in perfect condition..
My tuners comments were..
My suspicion is that the engine is picking up noise from somewhere and interpreting it as knock. We can confirm that with these channels. Finding the cause of the noise is more tricky.
The DMF is one possibility but replacing that is expensive and has no guarantee of fixing anything at all.
It's common on engines with aftermarket pistons as this changes the noise characteristics but it's also seen often with people that use HPFP overdrive kits. It can also be something as simple as a heatshield rattling against the engine or the exhaust contacting the subframe and passing vibrations up to the block.
So my tuner has given me an extra ‘fix’ for MHD to do extended logging…
On the forums there have been quite a few cylinder no 6 issues with tuned N54s..the dual mass flywheel has been found to be a common issue..hence the debate,,,
I’m looking at the M series S55 DMF as it’s rated for 500 BHP in parallel …
They are the 3 stages of knock detection for cylinder 6. That should tell us exactly what the DME is picking up that causes the fuel cut and misfire.
Genuine interested question, personally I can't think of a much less suitable car to take to 500+, BUT, that's just me, were all different, and I'm all for following ones dreams so I'm simply curious as to what the up keep of such an engine will be. Obvs the bottom end will be fine, it's the rest I'm thinking will need constant fettling, which may or not be an issue.
It's a N54, 500bhp is nothing for it . Once he has it all set up it should be as reliable as a N54 can be lol.john-e89 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 09, 2023 8:21 pmSo when, and if...which hopefully will happen, you get this car running correctly, do you have any idea how long it will run for until it goes out of tune, or will it go out...? I'd imagine it will be on a knife edge all the time being in such a high state of tune despite the bigger blowers and supporting mods, 500bhp is a lot, especially if you're booting it, although I can't really imagine where you can use that sort of shove for any more than the odd brief spurt on a very suitable day, so perhaps that will keep some longevity if I'm right, which I'm probably not, but anyway, what's your take on it staying in tune...?B21 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 09, 2023 9:16 am So as we passed 500 BHP we’ve encountered a persistent misfire on cylinder no 6 around 6k as we do the tuning runs…
Everywhere else the engine is close to perfection..smoother in the low register..spins like a turbine in the mid range and lights up like a rocket at the top end..
Usual suspects have been addressed typical with tuning a N54..
We transposed coil no 6 with 1..swapped out stock Bosch 3 points plug for NGK stage 1 colder, narrowed gap from 30 thou to 22 thou…no change..
My tuner was sure that maybe injector no 6 was problematic as he says ‘it’s the most difficult one to get right’..
So yesterday with much cursing I removed no 6 injector and then had to battle to ensure the new Teflon seal got seated well enough to resear the injector..
As can be sensed the injector was in perfect condition..
My tuners comments were..
My suspicion is that the engine is picking up noise from somewhere and interpreting it as knock. We can confirm that with these channels. Finding the cause of the noise is more tricky.
The DMF is one possibility but replacing that is expensive and has no guarantee of fixing anything at all.
It's common on engines with aftermarket pistons as this changes the noise characteristics but it's also seen often with people that use HPFP overdrive kits. It can also be something as simple as a heatshield rattling against the engine or the exhaust contacting the subframe and passing vibrations up to the block.
So my tuner has given me an extra ‘fix’ for MHD to do extended logging…
On the forums there have been quite a few cylinder no 6 issues with tuned N54s..the dual mass flywheel has been found to be a common issue..hence the debate,,,
I’m looking at the M series S55 DMF as it’s rated for 500 BHP in parallel …
They are the 3 stages of knock detection for cylinder 6. That should tell us exactly what the DME is picking up that causes the fuel cut and misfire.
Genuine interested question, personally I can't think of a much less suitable car to take to 500+, BUT, that's just me, were all different, and I'm all for following ones dreams so I'm simply curious as to what the up keep of such an engine will be. Obvs the bottom end will be fine, it's the rest I'm thinking will need constant fettling, which may or not be an issue.
So a review of the revised bushes and geometry following a few hundred miles including yesterday this lovely set of roads shown..B21 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 15, 2023 9:53 pm Revised geometry..focus on straight line stability at the expense of turn in and in corner grip…
More castor than stock circa 2 degrees…perfect toe in front and rear..more front camber less rear..overall quite close to Z4M / G20 M40i geometry..
Pre adjustment shows impact of removing front subframe to fit new turbos..