E85 - Sound Deadening and Door Speakers
- Thread starter PerryGunn
- Start date
Thanks to Perry for the info on the sound deadening and speakers.
My door cards now look almost identical to his pictures as I used SilentCoat 2mm and the same Hertz speakers given that I knew they would fit. However, having worked with the SilentCoat and realising how stiff it is I did not cover the airbag slot as I'm sure it would compromise opening speed if not even the ability to burst through correctly.
On a coupe I already had sound deadening on the metal door skin thankfully so no need to bust open the butyl seal. That said, adding material to the door cards has made a noticeable difference to the noise levels in the cabin. I'm a bit sad to have lost some of the engine noise but it's worth it for the reduced tyre roar on the motorway.
I found myself turning the treble back down again now that there is decent sound coming from that area.
A worthwhile modification for modest outlay.
My door cards now look almost identical to his pictures as I used SilentCoat 2mm and the same Hertz speakers given that I knew they would fit. However, having worked with the SilentCoat and realising how stiff it is I did not cover the airbag slot as I'm sure it would compromise opening speed if not even the ability to burst through correctly.
On a coupe I already had sound deadening on the metal door skin thankfully so no need to bust open the butyl seal. That said, adding material to the door cards has made a noticeable difference to the noise levels in the cabin. I'm a bit sad to have lost some of the engine noise but it's worth it for the reduced tyre roar on the motorway.
I found myself turning the treble back down again now that there is decent sound coming from that area.
A worthwhile modification for modest outlay.
Magicarcher
Active member
great writeup. i notice on the door panel the fasteners are two different colours, are they different? I would like to have some spares on hand.
PerryGunn
Lifer
Repeat of initial post with pictures now hosted by the forum - had to split it into two posts due to limit on number of attachments per post
---
I originally posted this information in another thread but I thought I should reproduce it here as it's a more logical place if anyone is looking for the info
I wasn't very happy with the 'tinny' sound of the E85 doors when opening/closing, I heard all the arguments about 'It's a sports car, so it's to make
it lighter' but felt that an extra 4 or 5 pound in each door would hardly impact the performance, and the quality of the door sound was out-of-place with an upmarket car
So I decided that I'd add some sound deadening sheets to the inside of the outer door skin to make the doors feel more solid and, as I only have the basic 6-speaker stereo, and seeing as the door was going to be apart, I also decided that I'd add the 'missing' door speakers
I'll provide links to items similar to those that I used, and where possible I'll link to items on Amazon, you can probably find them cheaper on eBay etc. but the Amazon links are likely to be longer-lived. If I can't find it on Amazon, I'll try to provide an alternative
Parts list
- Panel tools http://www.amazon.co.uk/Yellow-No-Scratch-Panel-Audio-Removal/dp/B009YDZ3TM
- Butyl rubber sealing strip http://www.amazon.co.uk/TREMSHIELD-BUTYL-TAPE-6mm-8mm/dp/B008452SWQ
- Silent Coat Extra (4mm) http://www.caraudiodirect.co.uk/silent-coat-extra-door.html
- Silent Coat (2mm) http://www.caraudiodirect.co.uk/silent-coat-door-kit.html
- Seam roller http://www.amazon.co.uk/Faithfull-Soft-Grip-Seam-Roller-FAISGSRW/dp/B000Y8OUAE
- 4" Speakers http://www.caraudiodirect.co.uk/hertz-dieci-dcx-100-3
- Soldering iron, speaker cable, crimp connectors, sharp utility knife etc.
NB This is how I did things, but please see the notes at the end of the post as I've listed things that, in hindsight, I would have done differently
I'm not going to discuss removing & replacing the door card and tweeter triangle as this is covered brilliantly in the BSW videos http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Djgcv-VpCW8 and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yq1uKzpxnAU
Once you have the door card and triangle removed, you'll be presented with this
The only tip I have over and above the BSW videos is that you need to have your window down to remove the door card but once the card is off, and before you disconnect the window switches etc., raise the window again or you'll have trouble fitting the deadening sheets
The inside of the door card looks like this
and you'll see the blanking plate for the door speaker, this is held in place with 3 x 8mm bolts. Remove the blanking plates and, with any luck you will find that two of the mounting holes for the new speaker will fit over the two bottom posts. Don't bolt them in place yet
You then need to bend the top speaker mounts to conform to the shape of the door card - not too difficult as the metal isn't particularly thick. Once you are happy with this, use a 'pointy thing' to mark where you need to drill small pilot holes. Remove the speaker and drill a couple of pilot holes with a 1 or 2mm drill bit - be very careful as you don't want to go through your leather. Replace the speaker and secure with the two bolts and a couple of 10mm self-tapping screws (technically self-tappers don't need a pilot hole, but I prefer to give them some guidance if possible)
You should end up with something similar to
Next, using a suitibly sharp utilty knife cut some of the 2mm Silent Coat to shape and stick to the rear of the door card - use the roller wherever possible to ensure it is stuck down firmly. If you put deadening in the airbag 'pocket' ensure that you slice the deadening lengthways down the centre (see the perforated line in the first doorcard picture) so that the airbag can deploy correctly when needed - I put the Silent Coat in as a single piece and then slit it down the centre before replacing the doorcard, this picture was taken before I made the cuts
In the 6-speaker stereo, the tweeter in the triangle above the door receives a full range signal and there is an in-line capacitor close to the tweeter to create a high pass filter - this is the black heatshrink-wrapped blob to the left of the tweeter in this photo. The tweeter cable is routed through a couple of strain-relief grooves at the bottom of the housing and held in place with something like rubber cement - I removed the glue (it just prises out) so that I had more cable to work with. When I replaced the cable in the grooves I used a hot glue gun rather than rubber cement.
I made up some leads, the left-hand lead below was about 80cm long and has crimped female spade connectors on one end and male bullet connectors on the other, the right-hand lead is abut 15cm and has female bullet connectors and bare wire. After crimping, I also fill the wire end of the crimp connectors with a squirt from a hot glue gun as it acts a bit of additional strain relief
Cut the tweeter connector wire about 5cm from the end, strip and solder back together along with the bare ends of the bullet connector wires - don't forget to place some heatshrink tubing on the tweeter wires before soldering or you'll have to go back and redo it (ask me how I know). The Tweeter cables have a black stripe on the +ve wire so ensure that you match this up with your speaker wire.
---
I originally posted this information in another thread but I thought I should reproduce it here as it's a more logical place if anyone is looking for the info
I wasn't very happy with the 'tinny' sound of the E85 doors when opening/closing, I heard all the arguments about 'It's a sports car, so it's to make
it lighter' but felt that an extra 4 or 5 pound in each door would hardly impact the performance, and the quality of the door sound was out-of-place with an upmarket car
So I decided that I'd add some sound deadening sheets to the inside of the outer door skin to make the doors feel more solid and, as I only have the basic 6-speaker stereo, and seeing as the door was going to be apart, I also decided that I'd add the 'missing' door speakers
I'll provide links to items similar to those that I used, and where possible I'll link to items on Amazon, you can probably find them cheaper on eBay etc. but the Amazon links are likely to be longer-lived. If I can't find it on Amazon, I'll try to provide an alternative
Parts list
- Panel tools http://www.amazon.co.uk/Yellow-No-Scratch-Panel-Audio-Removal/dp/B009YDZ3TM
- Butyl rubber sealing strip http://www.amazon.co.uk/TREMSHIELD-BUTYL-TAPE-6mm-8mm/dp/B008452SWQ
- Silent Coat Extra (4mm) http://www.caraudiodirect.co.uk/silent-coat-extra-door.html
- Silent Coat (2mm) http://www.caraudiodirect.co.uk/silent-coat-door-kit.html
- Seam roller http://www.amazon.co.uk/Faithfull-Soft-Grip-Seam-Roller-FAISGSRW/dp/B000Y8OUAE
- 4" Speakers http://www.caraudiodirect.co.uk/hertz-dieci-dcx-100-3
- Soldering iron, speaker cable, crimp connectors, sharp utility knife etc.
NB This is how I did things, but please see the notes at the end of the post as I've listed things that, in hindsight, I would have done differently
I'm not going to discuss removing & replacing the door card and tweeter triangle as this is covered brilliantly in the BSW videos http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Djgcv-VpCW8 and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yq1uKzpxnAU
Once you have the door card and triangle removed, you'll be presented with this
The only tip I have over and above the BSW videos is that you need to have your window down to remove the door card but once the card is off, and before you disconnect the window switches etc., raise the window again or you'll have trouble fitting the deadening sheets
The inside of the door card looks like this
and you'll see the blanking plate for the door speaker, this is held in place with 3 x 8mm bolts. Remove the blanking plates and, with any luck you will find that two of the mounting holes for the new speaker will fit over the two bottom posts. Don't bolt them in place yet
You then need to bend the top speaker mounts to conform to the shape of the door card - not too difficult as the metal isn't particularly thick. Once you are happy with this, use a 'pointy thing' to mark where you need to drill small pilot holes. Remove the speaker and drill a couple of pilot holes with a 1 or 2mm drill bit - be very careful as you don't want to go through your leather. Replace the speaker and secure with the two bolts and a couple of 10mm self-tapping screws (technically self-tappers don't need a pilot hole, but I prefer to give them some guidance if possible)
You should end up with something similar to
Next, using a suitibly sharp utilty knife cut some of the 2mm Silent Coat to shape and stick to the rear of the door card - use the roller wherever possible to ensure it is stuck down firmly. If you put deadening in the airbag 'pocket' ensure that you slice the deadening lengthways down the centre (see the perforated line in the first doorcard picture) so that the airbag can deploy correctly when needed - I put the Silent Coat in as a single piece and then slit it down the centre before replacing the doorcard, this picture was taken before I made the cuts
In the 6-speaker stereo, the tweeter in the triangle above the door receives a full range signal and there is an in-line capacitor close to the tweeter to create a high pass filter - this is the black heatshrink-wrapped blob to the left of the tweeter in this photo. The tweeter cable is routed through a couple of strain-relief grooves at the bottom of the housing and held in place with something like rubber cement - I removed the glue (it just prises out) so that I had more cable to work with. When I replaced the cable in the grooves I used a hot glue gun rather than rubber cement.
I made up some leads, the left-hand lead below was about 80cm long and has crimped female spade connectors on one end and male bullet connectors on the other, the right-hand lead is abut 15cm and has female bullet connectors and bare wire. After crimping, I also fill the wire end of the crimp connectors with a squirt from a hot glue gun as it acts a bit of additional strain relief
Cut the tweeter connector wire about 5cm from the end, strip and solder back together along with the bare ends of the bullet connector wires - don't forget to place some heatshrink tubing on the tweeter wires before soldering or you'll have to go back and redo it (ask me how I know). The Tweeter cables have a black stripe on the +ve wire so ensure that you match this up with your speaker wire.
PerryGunn
Lifer
Back at the car, we need to remove the airbag so disconnect the lead from the -ve terminal of your battery or you'll end up with an airbag warning light and a trip to the dealers to get it reset. When you disconnect the battery, it's a good idea to wrap the end of the disconnected lead in a thick plastic bag so there's no danger of accidental reconnection.
Remove the 3 bolts holding the airbag in place and then remove the connector , mine had a black locking clip that needed to be lifted on each side befor the connector would release
Work your way around the top half of the foam door membrane with a sharp utilty knife slicing through the middle of the butyl rubber seal, try not to cut or tear the foam - the butyl should still be very sticky. Small cuts or tears in the foam can be repaired with a sticky blob made from the butyl tape
There's no need to cut all the way around, the top half will peel back allowing you access to the inside of the door
Cut the Silent Coat to size/shape and cover as much of the outer doorskin as you can reach - using the roller wherever possible and firm hand pressure when you can't use the roller
I put in two layers using half the pack of 4mm Silent Coat on each door as the first layer and then covering this with another layer of the 2mm. You should be able to hear the difference if you rap on the outside of the door with your knuckles, the doors should sound a lot more solid
I then added another bead of butyl just inside the original - the original butyl is still very sticky so this may not be strictly necessary.
Re-stick the door foam being careful to ensure that all wires go back in the correct places. While you are doing this run the new speaker wire from the tweeter location (bullet end) to the speaker location (spade end). Follow the existing loom and secure the speaker cable by going over & under the existing cables. Reconnect and replace the airbag module.
Replace the door card connecting the speaker wires to the speaker (ensure polarity is correct) as you do so
When you reconnect the tweeter plug the bullet connectors together and push any spare wire behind the door card - I wrapped the wires in a small piece of bubblewrap to prevent any rattling
If you turn on your stereo and wonder why nothing works, get out of the car and reconnect the battery :wink:
In Hindsight:
- I wouldn't bother with the pack of Silent Coat Extra (6 x 4mm sheets), the volume pack of Silent Coat (20 x 2mm sheets) is easily enough to do both doors and door cards.
- I'd tap into the tweeter feed lower down in the door and crimp a bullet socket onto the car side of the feed and then crimp both the door speaker and tweeter feed together into a bullet plug, once connected I'd add some heatshrink over them as additional damp-proofing. This would be very neat and easier than soldering.
Remove the 3 bolts holding the airbag in place and then remove the connector , mine had a black locking clip that needed to be lifted on each side befor the connector would release
Work your way around the top half of the foam door membrane with a sharp utilty knife slicing through the middle of the butyl rubber seal, try not to cut or tear the foam - the butyl should still be very sticky. Small cuts or tears in the foam can be repaired with a sticky blob made from the butyl tape
There's no need to cut all the way around, the top half will peel back allowing you access to the inside of the door
Cut the Silent Coat to size/shape and cover as much of the outer doorskin as you can reach - using the roller wherever possible and firm hand pressure when you can't use the roller
I put in two layers using half the pack of 4mm Silent Coat on each door as the first layer and then covering this with another layer of the 2mm. You should be able to hear the difference if you rap on the outside of the door with your knuckles, the doors should sound a lot more solid
I then added another bead of butyl just inside the original - the original butyl is still very sticky so this may not be strictly necessary.
Re-stick the door foam being careful to ensure that all wires go back in the correct places. While you are doing this run the new speaker wire from the tweeter location (bullet end) to the speaker location (spade end). Follow the existing loom and secure the speaker cable by going over & under the existing cables. Reconnect and replace the airbag module.
Replace the door card connecting the speaker wires to the speaker (ensure polarity is correct) as you do so
When you reconnect the tweeter plug the bullet connectors together and push any spare wire behind the door card - I wrapped the wires in a small piece of bubblewrap to prevent any rattling
If you turn on your stereo and wonder why nothing works, get out of the car and reconnect the battery :wink:
In Hindsight:
- I wouldn't bother with the pack of Silent Coat Extra (6 x 4mm sheets), the volume pack of Silent Coat (20 x 2mm sheets) is easily enough to do both doors and door cards.
- I'd tap into the tweeter feed lower down in the door and crimp a bullet socket onto the car side of the feed and then crimp both the door speaker and tweeter feed together into a bullet plug, once connected I'd add some heatshrink over them as additional damp-proofing. This would be very neat and easier than soldering.
Worcester_spoon
Senior member
kis said:I know it’s old but found this very useful! Thanks for editing the original post (photos always help)!
Hey buddy, did it make a difference? Always wondered
Not yet mate, still doing my research! I suspect passenger side foam has failed so I'm going to get a replacement for that... then do it when it's not so wet! As with many Zed related things I'm taking it at a leisurely pace, lots to do yes, but since it's a keeper I've got all the time in the world
(will update this when I do get round to it tho!)
(will update this when I do get round to it tho!)
Commando_Rob
Member
Lots of choice out there of 4" 2 way speakers ! anyone recommend a good make model? To the original poster what made you use Hertz?
OP posted in 2013 so suspect reasoning, companies, prices, reviews were all tailored to "back then" so getting a more up-to-date consensus would probably be better... Easiest way (IMO) would be to start your own thread on the general discussions section? That being said I'm still happy with my OEM speakers. So could be a quick and cheap way to go about it
I'm looking at doing something very similiar, weighing up the options as there seems to be many different routes you can take, I found an adapter plate which could be very useful so I thought I'd share
https://www.dynamicsounds.co.uk/ct25bm08-bmw-3-5-series-x1-x3-x5-10cm-4-front-or-rear-door-speaker-adaptor.html
I'm looking at speakers from the Focal K2 series, they seem to be the only brand of aftermarket Audiophile-grade speakers in the car world. Not sure if the 165cm speakers will fit in the low-range footwell speakers which are 160mm. Has anyone got any experience with this? Not sure if they'll be a direct fit, bodge up job or adapter plate needed.
https://www.dynamicsounds.co.uk/ct25bm08-bmw-3-5-series-x1-x3-x5-10cm-4-front-or-rear-door-speaker-adaptor.html
I'm looking at speakers from the Focal K2 series, they seem to be the only brand of aftermarket Audiophile-grade speakers in the car world. Not sure if the 165cm speakers will fit in the low-range footwell speakers which are 160mm. Has anyone got any experience with this? Not sure if they'll be a direct fit, bodge up job or adapter plate needed.
I fitted one of these sets:
https://www.focal.com/en/car-audio/car-audio-kits-solutions/performance/access/component-kits/165-as3
I made a 3D mount for the door:
Which fits very nicely in the door. I found sound deadening really made a difference to the door card and door skin:
The 165mm subs fit straight into the existing mount on the RHS (with the aid of a 3D printed clamp):
And on the left it fits straight into the sheetmetal.
Any other questions, just PM me. Happy to help.
https://www.focal.com/en/car-audio/car-audio-kits-solutions/performance/access/component-kits/165-as3
I made a 3D mount for the door:
Which fits very nicely in the door. I found sound deadening really made a difference to the door card and door skin:
The 165mm subs fit straight into the existing mount on the RHS (with the aid of a 3D printed clamp):
And on the left it fits straight into the sheetmetal.
Any other questions, just PM me. Happy to help.
dj_jormi said:
Muchos apologios!!
OK, I haven't been on the forum for a while, what with Covid and all. I got into FPV RC flying, and as most of all the things I wanted to do on the Coupe were done, I didn't spend much time on her. But, we're taxed and ready for another Summer. After that, I may put her up for sale. Who knows....
Anyway... here are the 3D files. All of them. I may be too late for you, jormi, but hopefully I can help someone else.
Z4C_er said:dj_jormi said:Z4C_er said:Thank you very much, it's not late at all, I was right now this month to do it, since I had time and it has been great. I thank you very much, I send you a big hug!!!
I fitted one of these sets:
https://www.focal.com/en/car-audio/car-audio-kits-solutions/performance/access/component-kits/165-as3
I made a 3D mount for the door:
speaker mount focal.JPG
IMG_20200430_170304_1.jpg
Which fits very nicely in the door. I found sound deadening really made a difference to the door card and door skin:
IMG_20200425_165535.jpg
The 165mm subs fit straight into the existing mount on the RHS (with the aid of a 3D printed clamp):
IMG_20200511_115331.jpg
And on the left it fits straight into the sheetmetal.
Any other questions, just PM me. Happy to help.
Hello Guy!! Can you send link to 3d??
I need This for my car todo. Thanks!!
Muchos apologios!!
OK, I haven't been on the forum for a while, what with Covid and all. I got into FPV RC flying, and as most of all the things I wanted to do on the Coupe were done, I didn't spend much time on her. But, we're taxed and ready for another Summer. After that, I may put her up for sale. Who knows....
Anyway... here are the 3D files. All of them. I may be too late for you, jormi, but hopefully I can help someone else.
Thank you very much, it's not late at all, I was right now this month to do it, since I had time and it has been great. I thank you very much, I send you a big hug!!!!!
I see people use NOT noice cancelling, but resonance cancelling. Heavy butimen (Dynamat etc) is a very inefficient way to kill noice. Especially in the amount put here, and especially on the inner door cards.. A small piece of Dynamat etc is only good in the center part of the outer door panel, for resonance.
Rather I'd use the type of self-adhesant foam car makers use from factory. Look inside the doors of other cars than the e85/86 which lacks this.
But NOT over the airbag area!!!
Rather I'd use the type of self-adhesant foam car makers use from factory. Look inside the doors of other cars than the e85/86 which lacks this.
But NOT over the airbag area!!!
just wanted to say a big thank you to everyone that contributed to this thread. I've been wanting to improve my basic sound system for a while but didn't want to do anything to invasive as I only use it when the roof is up. Fitting the door speakers has made a huge difference and is now fine for what I need in this car.