Yet Another Roof Problem

[Ladyjane]

Hi there! I’ve a problem with my beloved Z4 roof. I’ve scrolled through previous posts but not sure I’ve seen a similar issue or solution so hope you can help!

Press button to open, windows go all the way down, the green light is illuminated on close roof button, then nothing. The close roof button won’t close windows so need to use windows button to close.

The low battery warning comes on occasionally so we charged it but didn’t help.

After googling, we then found the motor and pump was sitting in its very soggy foam cushion, took it out, dried everything but still nothing. Bought a replacement motor from Roofmotors, fitted it easy enough, but still nadda, although there is a buzz from the boot when trying to open. Should I have bought the more expensive motor and pump unit? The original pump looks ok with no corrosion. We also replaced the salmon relays.
Any ideas?

[Chippie]

As you’re not getting a red light and bong then I suspect that you don’t have any problems with the micro switches and hall sensor, also as you can hear a buzz from the boot then the electric motor is probably turning, which suggests that either the pump has failed, the relief valve is open (if the e88 has one) or the motor drive isn’t turning the pump.
Have you checked the hydraulic fluid level?

[enuff_zed]

Hi and welcome to the madhouse.
The absolute guru of E89 roof problems is RobbiZ4.
You will need to make three posts before you can PM him, but in the meantime, take a look at this post and you'll see what I mean about his 'guru'ness'.
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=129048

[Ladyjane]

Thanks for responses. Should have said I have a 2009 E89 2.3i if that helps.
Topped up the fluid when we fitted the motor but should we have done anything else? Not sure what the relief valve is?

[B21]

Old battery won’t help with the roof…are you running the engine whilst trying to operate the roof?

[Ladyjane]

Yes, every time as I thought this might be the case. Took it for a 4 hour road trip thinking this might give the battery a boost but still nothing. Should I try a new battery as although we charged it, the warning still comes on if the radio plays after engine turned off?

[B21]

Yes, every time as I thought this might be the case. Took it for a 4 hour road trip thinking this might give the battery a boost but still nothing. Should I try a new battery as although we charged it, the warning still comes on if the radio plays after engine turned off?

Sounds like the battery is well passed it..I’d do that asap then see what happens…IMHO

You will need to register the battery at some stage as well

[RobbiZ4]

After googling, we then found the motor and pump was sitting in its very soggy foam cushion, took it out, dried everything but still nothing.

No new hydraulic pump is required!
Did you check the power supply of the motor comming from the red fuse box next to the battery on the right?
Take a multimeter and check the 12V supply on all of the plugs on top, especially on the grey one of the motor. If there is nothing to measure, the fuse box has to ge replaced completely as well (what I always expect in combination with a rusty roof motor).

Background for you guys listening around:

The CTM always checks the presence of all required roof components: 2x relays, 3-4 solenoids of the pump, hall sensors and microswitches. ONLY if each component could be electrically detected by the CTM, the roof process may start. That means, the 4 windows won't move if any component is missing.

But in this case, the windows are opening.
And that is a clear indicator, that the battery is ok, the CTM is ok, all named components are ok.

As the roof doesn't move any millimeter (inch) after all the above listed internal checks, the power supply of the hydraulic pump might be the issue. This can't be checked by the CTM.

But this sounds curious:

although there is a buzz from the boot when trying to open.

That would indicate, the red fuse box is ok, if you really can hear the new motor!

Did you mount it correctly? There is a small coupling plate between the anchor of the replaced motor and the hydraulic pump, that couples both components. If forgotten to lay in, the motor migth turn uncoupled.

20190411_190536.1_sm.jpg (27.46 KiB) Viewed 419 times

[Ladyjane]

Thanks RobbiZ4

The red fuse box all looked ok re corrosion but we’ll get a multimeter and check the supply. The old motor hadn’t rusted, just had some white spots.

We’ll take off the new motor again and check it’s fitting correctly. As an aside some fluid came out when the old motor came off and we just topped it up. Did it need primed or anything?

Annoyingly my neighbour reversed into it last week so it’s getting a spray job this week, so can’t check the roof till I get it back.

[RobbiZ4]

The old motor hadn’t rusted, just had some white spots.

Well, I'm talking about rust (and often mud) INSIDE of the dismantled e-motor, not on the lower side of the housing.

As an aside some fluid came out when the old motor came off and we just topped it up. Did it need primed or anything?

That is ok, as it's the pump's side with the oil circuits. Just get it removed with a tissue, nothing else to be done. The oil loss will be only some drops.

But - be very, very carefully when closing again, as the big o-ring can be destroyed. Not only push both components together, also turn it slightly against each other until the 2 srews will fit.

[Ladyjane]

Morning all - picked up my car yesterday (lovely paint job) and the guy loved my car and was interested to help with the roof.
RobbiZ4 you are an absolute guru - we followed your advice - stuck a meter on the battery - all good. Ran a wire from the battery to the motor and it whirred - all good. Put the meter on the red fuse box - all circuits good except the grey which had nadda! So, we ran the magic wire from the battery to the buzz bar at the bottom of the red box, over the fuse and into the top where the grey button sits, then tried the roof button … and it worked!!!
Rather than buying a whole new red box, could we run an inline fuse wire from the power at bottom of the red box up to the grey switch. Probably not the prettiest or best fix but is this ok?

[RobbiZ4]

Rather than buying a whole new red box, could we run an inline fuse wire from the power at bottom of the red box up to the grey switch. Probably not the prettiest or best fix but is this ok?

Absolutely a NoGo! Don't even think about it. Never take the risk that the next time the pump motor stalls, the resulting short circuit will blow your battery.

[Ladyjane]

Had a rethink on the bodge job and have just ordered a red box - only £17 for a salvaged part so in the larger scheme of £2.5k quote from BMW to replace motor, this is along with £400 refurbed motor is def bearable!

[Ladyjane]

Thanks RobbiZ4, def not worth the risk. Thanks again all for advice. Great forum