Obviously, as my comment was addressed to Buster. Oddball 2.
Not joined yet? Register for free and enjoy features such as alerts, private messaging and viewing latest posts and topics.
Esso's new fuel
- enuff_zed
- Lifer
- Posts: 14906
- Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2016 11:05 am
- Location: Attleborough, Norfolk
Esso's new fuel
- R.E92
- Senior Member
- Posts: 1644
- Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2013 10:10 am
Esso's new fuel
It's nice to have another option aside from just VPower and Momentum but the price makes it useful only as a last resort.
There's no benefit in using higher octane fuel unless tuned though. Both the N20 and N54 engines in their standard state will operate at maximum output on any standard petrol. There's no method by which the engine can produce more power with the increase octane, it can only reduce output when the fuel quality is bad.
There's no benefit in using higher octane fuel unless tuned though. Both the N20 and N54 engines in their standard state will operate at maximum output on any standard petrol. There's no method by which the engine can produce more power with the increase octane, it can only reduce output when the fuel quality is bad.
-
- Member
- Posts: 203
- Joined: Mon Jun 22, 2020 9:16 pm
- Location: Didcot, Oxfordshire
Esso's new fuel
I see that this is an E89 board thread, and I'm curious as to whether there's a difference in BMW's fuel recommendations between the M54 and N52/N54 engines. I say this because my E85 2.5i/3.0i driver's handbook states the following:
"The engine of your BMW is designed to run on Super Plus/premium plus petrol - octane number 98 RON. Run the engine on this petrol by preference, in order to achieve rated performance and fuel consumption. You can also run the engine on premium grade unleaded petrol - octane number 95 RON. The minimum permissible grade is regular-grade unleaded petrol - octane number 91 RON."
I'm by no means an expert on BMW ECUs, but my general take on higher octane fuels is this.
The ECU for a normally aspirated engine equipped with knock sensors can handle fuels with lower octane levels by retarding the ignition timing - so if the engine starts to pink/knock, the sensors pick this up and the ECU retards the ignition. Many petrol cars stipulate 95 octane fuel, in which case it's possible that the ECU map limits ignition advance to that appropriate that octane level, and thus won't gain any advantage from 98/99 octane fuel over 95. That would explain why many people report no perceptible performance improvement with 98/99 octane fuel.
However, from the above handbook reference I deduce that the E85/M54 ECU will indeed advance the ignition timing to take full advantage of 98/99 octane fuel. It's also conceivable that it can take further advantage of higher octane fuel by using the VANOS system to make adjustments to the valve timing.
Again, I'm no expert - just my 2p's worth!
"The engine of your BMW is designed to run on Super Plus/premium plus petrol - octane number 98 RON. Run the engine on this petrol by preference, in order to achieve rated performance and fuel consumption. You can also run the engine on premium grade unleaded petrol - octane number 95 RON. The minimum permissible grade is regular-grade unleaded petrol - octane number 91 RON."
I'm by no means an expert on BMW ECUs, but my general take on higher octane fuels is this.
The ECU for a normally aspirated engine equipped with knock sensors can handle fuels with lower octane levels by retarding the ignition timing - so if the engine starts to pink/knock, the sensors pick this up and the ECU retards the ignition. Many petrol cars stipulate 95 octane fuel, in which case it's possible that the ECU map limits ignition advance to that appropriate that octane level, and thus won't gain any advantage from 98/99 octane fuel over 95. That would explain why many people report no perceptible performance improvement with 98/99 octane fuel.
However, from the above handbook reference I deduce that the E85/M54 ECU will indeed advance the ignition timing to take full advantage of 98/99 octane fuel. It's also conceivable that it can take further advantage of higher octane fuel by using the VANOS system to make adjustments to the valve timing.
Again, I'm no expert - just my 2p's worth!
R.E92 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 12, 2020 5:37 pm It's nice to have another option aside from just VPower and Momentum but the price makes it useful only as a last resort.
There's no benefit in using higher octane fuel unless tuned though. Both the N20 and N54 engines in their standard state will operate at maximum output on any standard petrol. There's no method by which the engine can produce more power with the increase octane, it can only reduce output when the fuel quality is bad.
Alan
2003 E85 Sterling Grey 3.0i
2003 E85 Sterling Grey 3.0i
-
- Member
- Posts: 232
- Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2020 10:29 pm
Esso's new fuel
Exactly, and at 20% more than standard fuel, waste of money!!
-
- Lifer
- Posts: 11094
- Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2015 10:27 pm
Esso's new fuel
Point taken. So what in your opinion or professional opinion is the point of higher octane fuel...? Genuine question, not a sarcastic post as it may seem to be given it’s through a keyboard and not face to face.R.E92 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 12, 2020 5:37 pm It's nice to have another option aside from just VPower and Momentum but the price makes it useful only as a last resort.
There's no benefit in using higher octane fuel unless tuned though. Both the N20 and N54 engines in their standard state will operate at maximum output on any standard petrol. There's no method by which the engine can produce more power with the increase octane, it can only reduce output when the fuel quality is bad.
M roady...OEM CSL’s, strut brace, Remus back boxes, ZHP
MR2 MK 2
E89 35i project car...mapped 365bhp, M4 stoppers & wheels, KWV3’s, H&R front ARB, M3 front arms, strut brace Eisenmann cat back race exhaust, VRSF downpipes inbound
E89 35is
G29
MR2 MK 2
E89 35i project car...mapped 365bhp, M4 stoppers & wheels, KWV3’s, H&R front ARB, M3 front arms, strut brace Eisenmann cat back race exhaust, VRSF downpipes inbound
E89 35is
G29
- chasBMW
- Member
- Posts: 457
- Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2010 1:42 pm
- Location: Hampshire
Esso's new fuel
do they ? pretty sure my 35iS had a 98 ron sticker on it
Valencia Orange 35is now gone but well remembered now Porsche Boxster GTS
- chasBMW
- Member
- Posts: 457
- Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2010 1:42 pm
- Location: Hampshire
Esso's new fuel
Chris_D wrote: ↑Thu Nov 12, 2020 12:34 pm No benefits to be gained whatsoever with anything higher than 95RON, especially if you don’t have a high compression engine.
once again you sure ? as smartbear has mentioned forced iduction engines do and my owners manual makes it clear that engine is designed to run on 99 ron (porsche boxster 718 gts) , it always kind of surprises me , everyone on here has probaly spent many thousands of pounds buying nice cars and then go into meltdown about spending a few quid on petrol
Valencia Orange 35is now gone but well remembered now Porsche Boxster GTS
-
- Senior Member
- Posts: 2813
- Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2016 2:49 am
- MACK
- Lifer
- Posts: 3600
- Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2015 11:38 am
- Location: Manchester
Esso's new fuel
Very devisive as ever this question. For me if it's remapped on the good stuff stick with that. Beyond that I go off what ever the fuel flap or handbook says. If the manufacturer thinks it's should be drinking 97/98 then 97/98 it is. That's the case with my E85 3.0i M54 and my E89 N20 20i. But anyone moving from the normal 95 and expecting an instant reaction your in for a disappointment. It does take a good few tanks fills for the management to fully adapt and even then it's not like a remap on an turbo.
Silver 05 3.0i SE
Mods inc - F/L Xenons Clear Ind Rear Lights M Sport Seats & Wheel Eibach/B4 3.64 DIFF (SOLD)
White E89 20i M Sport
Mods inc- B12 kit, M3 Arms, 18" Zito 935's with PS4's, Decat & Remap, Switchable Exhaust Flap (SOLD)
Mods inc - F/L Xenons Clear Ind Rear Lights M Sport Seats & Wheel Eibach/B4 3.64 DIFF (SOLD)
White E89 20i M Sport
Mods inc- B12 kit, M3 Arms, 18" Zito 935's with PS4's, Decat & Remap, Switchable Exhaust Flap (SOLD)
- Argyll Andy
- Lifer
- Posts: 5348
- Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2019 10:16 pm
- Location: Argyll & Bute
Esso's new fuel
Just nipped out to check mine after your post because I run on 95 RON
- Attachments
-
- 7445BA24-261A-442A-B8D0-11B062DB878F.jpeg (134.42 KiB) Viewed 369 times
G29 M40i Thundernight with Ivory interior, all option packs (here for a while, hopefully )
G29 M40i Misano Blue all option packs (Gone 26k of fun)
E89 35iS, Valencia Orange, Design Pure Traction pack (Gone)
E89 23i sDrive, Silver (Gone)
- Mr Tidy
- Legend
- Posts: 23924
- Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2014 12:18 pm
- Location: North West Surrey
Esso's new fuel
Like I said my Indy recommended Super Plus for both my cars, and it seems he's right now I've bothered to RFTM!
My 330i has an N52 engine like many Z4s. The book says the engine is rated to run on 98 RON. It CAN be run on 95 RON, and the minimum permissible grade is 91 RON.
The manual for my MC says pretty much the same, except the minimum permissible grade is 95 RON.
So they'll both keep getting Momentum, or V-Power, etc. if I need to fill up away from home.
My 330i has an N52 engine like many Z4s. The book says the engine is rated to run on 98 RON. It CAN be run on 95 RON, and the minimum permissible grade is 91 RON.
The manual for my MC says pretty much the same, except the minimum permissible grade is 95 RON.
So they'll both keep getting Momentum, or V-Power, etc. if I need to fill up away from home.
Coupes because stunning!
Current - Silver Grey MC, Imola Red heated Nappa & carbon trim. Aeros, H & R Coil-overs, 224s, OE Strut brace, Nav, cup-holders, DSP Hi-Fi, pdc, cruise, MFSW, no CDV! E90 330i daily
Gone - Montego Blue
Gone - Ruby Black
Current - Silver Grey MC, Imola Red heated Nappa & carbon trim. Aeros, H & R Coil-overs, 224s, OE Strut brace, Nav, cup-holders, DSP Hi-Fi, pdc, cruise, MFSW, no CDV! E90 330i daily
Gone - Montego Blue
Gone - Ruby Black
-
- Member
- Posts: 232
- Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2020 10:29 pm
Esso's new fuel
What page number in your book does it tell you to run a 330i, N52 engine on 98RON?
My book says it CAN be run on 98 RON although 95 RON is standard and PERFECTLY ACCEPTABLE.
91 RON is the absolute minimum you can use and ONLY IN AN EMERGENCY when nothing else is available.
My book says it CAN be run on 98 RON although 95 RON is standard and PERFECTLY ACCEPTABLE.
91 RON is the absolute minimum you can use and ONLY IN AN EMERGENCY when nothing else is available.
-
- Member
- Posts: 877
- Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2015 7:16 pm
Esso's new fuel
With a remapped N20, I can confirm higher octane fuel (I use She'll V Power) makes a noticeable difference to performance. 100%.
-
- Senior Member
- Posts: 2813
- Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2016 2:49 am
Esso's new fuel
OK, I'll admit my 35iS chugs a bit on RON's 95, especially up hills. Mind you, it's only been running on 5 cylinders since last lockdown. But I look at it this way ... 5 is one more than most folk have anyway, so you could say I've still got one spare. And what with the money I've saved on not having the missing one fixed and on only having to 'feed' 5 with petrol instead of 6 and with only using RON's 95, I'm quids in.
Vidi, vici, veni
- enuff_zed
- Lifer
- Posts: 14906
- Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2016 11:05 am
- Location: Attleborough, Norfolk
Esso's new fuel
Careful you don't bite your tongue off Buster with it wedged that far in your cheek.Busterboo wrote: ↑Fri Nov 13, 2020 2:55 am OK, I'll admit my 35iS chugs a bit on RON's 95, especially up hills. Mind you, it's only been running on 5 cylinders since last lockdown. But I look at it this way ... 5 is one more than most folk have anyway, so you could say I've still got one spare. And what with the money I've saved on not having the missing one fixed and on only having to 'feed' 5 with petrol instead of 6 and with only using RON's 95, I'm quids in.