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Porsche 996 brake caliper upgrade
- bradz
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Porsche 996 brake caliper upgrade
If you are going to use it properly on track then AP is the way.
I have AP's on my E46 & E92 M3 that are track cars, they will take as much punishment as you can give them.
I have AP's on my E46 & E92 M3 that are track cars, they will take as much punishment as you can give them.
Last edited by bradz on Mon Aug 31, 2020 6:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Z4M Coupe, E92 M3, E46 M3 Track car
- abar121
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Porsche 996 brake caliper upgrade
Go for a properly engineered and evaluated kit with bigger brake disks, or don't bother. The extra leverage and mass you get from larger circumference brake disks, is a major benefit in braking performance.
A cobbled together kit with calipers that do not properly sweep the disks, could also have insurance implications. Brakes are a major factor in a lot of accidents and with a large claim, they will investigate every possible reason not to pay on a claim. Even if you declare the calipers, they will assume they meet all relevant standards and are road worthy.
A cobbled together kit with calipers that do not properly sweep the disks, could also have insurance implications. Brakes are a major factor in a lot of accidents and with a large claim, they will investigate every possible reason not to pay on a claim. Even if you declare the calipers, they will assume they meet all relevant standards and are road worthy.
'07 Z4M Interlagos Blue. All options except extended leather.
- BMWZ4MC
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Porsche 996 brake caliper upgrade
Alcon don’t make a kit for the Z4M and the E46 M3 front BBK doesn’t fit our cars.R60BBA wrote: Upgrade the front brakes to a BBK from the likes of AP or Alcon...
I ran OEM brakes with solid bushings, updated fluid and pads and cooling ducts for a long time and they never let me down even with very heavy track use. However, the brakes lacked feel, especially when hot and just didn’t inspire much confidence. I swapped to APs front and rear immediately before shipping the car to Aus (so I never tested them in anger in the UK). My first track day here was at Eastern Creek in 35 degree heat. I spent the day chasing my mate in his C63S and the brakes behaved predictably and in an identical fashion from the first time I used them to the end of the day. I’d definitely take up Tom’s offer were I in your position...mmm-five wrote: For at least a couple of track days, I'd try decent brake fluid & bleed, decent pads (Pagid RS29 or Performance Friction). If you're still getting fade after a couple of laps on those then you may need to change your braking technique and/or the calipers - as the single pot ones on the Z4M can only take so much.
I could happily do 20 minute sessions at Oulton Park on standard calipers with uprated fluid & pads (Yellowstuff/Bluestuff at the time as I got an excellent price from EBC for being a marshal...about £100 for a 4-wheel set) - or about 3 laps of the Ring (tyres & fuel were the limiting factor there).
As an aside, don’t under estimate the benefit of suspension modifications on improving braking. When I changed from Eibach springs with OEM dampers to KW Clubsports, my braking distances were markedly shorter on the same tracks. I have almost no pitch under braking so all four tyres are contributing to the deceleration effort (and I can carry more speed through the corners).
Z4MC - heavily fettled for track use
Lotus Exige - sensible daily driver on the mods slippery slope
Westfield SEiW - in hibernation
Modified RS4 Avant - back in Blighty
S2000 GT - gone
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Porsche 996 brake caliper upgrade
I have tried to figure out the actual loss if any, because even when the piston area is smaller, the pad is larger, without actual engineering studies (not internet excel sheets) is very difficult to accurately say what is, and what is not an upgrade.
I just installed the 6-pot Brembo and the feel is nicely improved, and have no way to tell if I have less brake power, I am still able to trigger ABS if I stomped the brakes just as before, yet, they are easier to modulate as the pedal is firmer the more you press it, whereas with the OE setup is always the same so your only feedback for modulation is travel.
Last edited by maupineda on Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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- MrPT
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Porsche 996 brake caliper upgrade
Nice work. The advantage of a larger pad area is mainly heat dissipation and reduced wear rate. It doesn't compensate for smaller piston area in terms of clamping force on the disc.maupineda wrote: ↑Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:58 pmI have tried to figure out the actual loss if any, because even when the piston area is smaller, the pad is larger, without actual engineering studies (not internet excel sheets) is very difficult to accurately say what is, and what is not an upgrade.
I just installed the 6-pot Brembo and the feel is nicely improved, and have no way to tell if I have less brake power, I am still able to trigger ABS if I stomped the brakes just as before, yet, they are easier to modulate as the pedal is firmer the more you press it, whereas with the OE setup is always the same so your only feedback for modulation is travel.
It's worth spending a bit of time thinking about the calculations because messing with brake bias can be extremely dangerous.
2008 Z4MC: heavy wheels | crap suspension | skittish rear end | wobbly engine | not enough induction noise | underwhelming turn in | inconsistent braking | lardy battery | chubby steering wheel
2006 Z4 2.5si: gone
2006 Z4 2.5si: gone
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Porsche 996 brake caliper upgrade
Unless you're having a significantly rear brake biased setup (i.e you'll lock up the rears before your front) which I can't for the life of me think that is available on a BMW platform either as aftermarket or DIY, all you'll be doing is slightly changing the front bias.
Due to the weight over the front wheels and considerably larger discs on the front, even running 8 pots with carbon ceramics on the front will just cause ABS activation and front weight transfer rather than any undriveable characteristic. That's why so many manufacturers have made much bigger and and aggressive front only setups that you can happily run with stock rear setup with OEM pads.
Due to the weight over the front wheels and considerably larger discs on the front, even running 8 pots with carbon ceramics on the front will just cause ABS activation and front weight transfer rather than any undriveable characteristic. That's why so many manufacturers have made much bigger and and aggressive front only setups that you can happily run with stock rear setup with OEM pads.
- MrPT
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Porsche 996 brake caliper upgrade
I get that. I suppose I was just trying to suggest some caution, given the stated belief that a larger pad compensates for a smaller piston area.
2008 Z4MC: heavy wheels | crap suspension | skittish rear end | wobbly engine | not enough induction noise | underwhelming turn in | inconsistent braking | lardy battery | chubby steering wheel
2006 Z4 2.5si: gone
2006 Z4 2.5si: gone
- Vanne
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Porsche 996 brake caliper upgrade
I am with Mpt, carefull what your messing with on a public road, if s**t hits the fan, and you cause injury, you'll be liable, esp if they go looking with a fine tooth combe.. do yourself a favour and either buy a proper bbk designed for the car in question,. Or just stick with the OEM stuff. (Which is absolutely awesome anyways in the z4m case , in my book,esp if paired with correct fluid and pads.)
2007 EuroSpec Z4///MC Building/Developing Z4 GT3
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Porsche 996 brake caliper upgrade
I disagree, the have very poor feel, they maybe powerful, but no awesomeVanne wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 5:47 pm I am with Mpt, carefull what your messing with on a public road, if s**t hits the fan, and you cause injury, you'll be liable, esp if they go looking with a fine tooth combe.. do yourself a favour and either buy a proper bbk designed for the car in question,. Or just stick with the OEM stuff. (Which is absolutely awesome anyways in the z4m case , in my book,esp if paired with correct fluid and pads.)
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Porsche 996 brake caliper upgrade
Stick to OEM discs and get some disgusting pads. once hot the race pads will be more than enough for 20-30 min sessions. by which point you'll probably be knackered haha
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Porsche 996 brake caliper upgrade
Ever so slight thread hijack, but what are the preferred pad and Fluid combo based on all of your experience?
Z4MC Interlagos Blue
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Instagram: z4mcuk
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Porsche 996 brake caliper upgrade
RBF600 and RBF660 I tend to use. as for pads the HAWK DTC60 is a wicked pad and I highly recommend them all round (front and rear)crustyclown777 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:34 pm Ever so slight thread hijack, but what are the preferred pad and Fluid combo based on all of your experience?
- philipw
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Porsche 996 brake caliper upgrade
I second this, I use RBF660 and Hawk DTC60 as well and have had no issues.Wursle wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:49 pmRBF600 and RBF660 I tend to use. as for pads the HAWK DTC60 is a wicked pad and I highly recommend them all round (front and rear)crustyclown777 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:34 pm Ever so slight thread hijack, but what are the preferred pad and Fluid combo based on all of your experience?
08 Carbon Black M Coupe
- BMWZ4MC
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Porsche 996 brake caliper upgrade
I’ve used ATE Super Blue for years (now called Typ200 and no longer blue in colour). It’s cheaper than Motul RBF 600 or RBF 660 and performs better in my experience. The only time I’ve had the brake peddle hit the floor on a track day was with Motul RBF 660 (using OEM discs, EBC Bluestuff pads, solid brake bushings and brake cooling ducts). I changed back to ATE and had no further problems.
I always found the OEM set up (supplemented as listed) with ATE fluid provided consistently effective braking with heavy and frequent track use. However, pedal feel became increasingly inconsistent as the brakes became hotter. For that reason alone, I fitted an AP BBK front and rear (initially using EBC Bluestuff pads). The difference was night and day compared with OEM. Even in 35C heat, the brakes performed consistently with solid pedal feel long after I was a ragged, sweaty mess!
I always found the OEM set up (supplemented as listed) with ATE fluid provided consistently effective braking with heavy and frequent track use. However, pedal feel became increasingly inconsistent as the brakes became hotter. For that reason alone, I fitted an AP BBK front and rear (initially using EBC Bluestuff pads). The difference was night and day compared with OEM. Even in 35C heat, the brakes performed consistently with solid pedal feel long after I was a ragged, sweaty mess!
Z4MC - heavily fettled for track use
Lotus Exige - sensible daily driver on the mods slippery slope
Westfield SEiW - in hibernation
Modified RS4 Avant - back in Blighty
S2000 GT - gone