Virus worries
- Thread starter ronk
- Start date
ronk said:
You have to remember that we are only testing once in hospital so our indicated daily rates are meaningless, Germany have a younger population than the UK which has much younger population than Italy. Thus you can not compare our daily infected data with countries that have better testing, death rate is more accurate.
America is the one to watch, in one way they have small populations in isolated towns but large numbers of people in lots of cities,
john-e89 said:
I see your point and I'm simply challenging it.
Sure, we all have to die of something but to suggest that the underlying conditions are THE real cause of death, not Coronavirus, when an already compromised person proves positive for the virus and succumbs, should not be recorded as a death from Coronavirus is just wrong.
If all those people in hospitals in Italy are just suffering and dying en masse from their many different underlying conditions and not from Coronavirus, why are so many otherwise healthy doctors and other healthcare workers, dying from the Coronavirus when they come in contact with those patients with their underlying conditions? It's the coronavirus that those patients carry with which they infect others because, they, themselves are severely infected.
:?john-e89 said:
O.K. Talking hypothetically here; if PDJ's Dad gets infected with Coronavirus and is taken to hospital in an ambulance, with 2 healthy paramedics with no known medical conditions, which crashes on the journey and kills all the occupants in the ambulance, is the cause of death for PDJ's dad a RTA, coronavirus or from complications of any of the conditions listed? In comparison, I would assume you would agree that the 2 paramedics would have their deaths attributed to the RTA only?
exdos said:john-e89 said:
I see your point and I'm simply challenging it.
Sure, we all have to die of something but to suggest that the underlying conditions are THE real cause of death, not Coronavirus, when an already compromised person proves positive for the virus and succumbs, should not be recorded as a death from Coronavirus is just wrong.
If all those people in hospitals in Italy are just suffering and dying en masse from their many different underlying conditions and not from Coronavirus, why are so many otherwise healthy doctors and other healthcare workers, dying from the Coronavirus when they come in contact with those patients with their underlying conditions? It's the coronavirus that those patients carry with which they infect others because, they, themselves are severely infected.
I’m not putting it very well admittedly. What I’m getting at is, and obviously you’re right about the healthy dying, is how many is this thing actually killing who are healthy, clearly lots, but given the overall deaths quoted my thought was that the number of healthy people dying is quite low hence my thought about it being difficult to put figures on the overall picture.
exdos said:
I would think only an autopsy could provide the answer on PDJ’s dad. The paramedics also but the RTA inducing huge trauma the likely cause but until an autopsy then guessing is......guessing.
Not sure we should be using PDJ’s dad here as an example tbh. If we continue can we use a hypothetical person.
john-e89 said:
The thing here is that every single person who catches the virus is a vehicle of spread and those with underlying conditions with compromised immunity are fertile "breeding grounds" for the virus (Viruses don't actually breed).
Obviously, in ordinary circumstances, the health compromised would most likely have their deaths recorded as being attributed to one of their underlying conditions, but if their deaths are attributed to coronavirus, then the National Statistics will later show that there has been a fall in, say, heart failure etc.. Therefore, it will be important when reviewing the statistics in future in realising that the health of a nation has not been improved by successfully tackling heart disease, instead the figures for heart disease are skewed by the effect of coronavirus and NOT the opposite way around.
john-e89 said:I would think only an autopsy could provide the answer on PDJ’s dad. The paramedics also but the RTA inducing huge trauma the likely cause but until an autopsy then guessing is......guessing.
Not sure we should be using PDJ’s dad here as an example tbh. If we continue can we use a hypothetical person.
I very much doubt that the Italians are doing many autopsies at the moment whilst inundated.
Yes, sincere apologies to PDJ and his family and I hope that all stay well.
If you don’t catch it you won’t need to worry.You can use my dad as an example no problem
My Grandma died when she wax 99 years old and had not seen a doctor within 3 days so the law required a post mortom until my mum stepped in as a nurse and pointed out gran was in a nursing home and a doctor had been to the address so got the death cert signed off without wasting time and money cutting up gran to say she died of old age and bowl cancer she had had for 30 years
Some tomes that not so common sense needs to be applied
The stats are not a true reflection but it is what we are being told
My Grandma died when she wax 99 years old and had not seen a doctor within 3 days so the law required a post mortom until my mum stepped in as a nurse and pointed out gran was in a nursing home and a doctor had been to the address so got the death cert signed off without wasting time and money cutting up gran to say she died of old age and bowl cancer she had had for 30 years
Some tomes that not so common sense needs to be applied
The stats are not a true reflection but it is what we are being told
To properly illustrate my earlier postings, here are a couple of graphs of the published numbers of daily death totals from Coronavirus in Italy, USA, Germany and UK up until 25th March 2020, (from https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ ) which have been set so that the plots commence at the starting point of the first recorded death in each country rather than the date on which deaths commenced.
It would appear that viral spread in Europe and USA follows the same progress, despite different protocols in place in each country. The actuality would appear to follow the models which our experts have used in forecasting spread and for the phases to be followed in seeking to limit the mortality rate. The spread of the virus in Italy is about a fortnight in advance of the rest of us.
It would appear that viral spread in Europe and USA follows the same progress, despite different protocols in place in each country. The actuality would appear to follow the models which our experts have used in forecasting spread and for the phases to be followed in seeking to limit the mortality rate. The spread of the virus in Italy is about a fortnight in advance of the rest of us.
