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M market watch

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Post by Bodyboarder » Fri Sep 21, 2018 7:36 am

I think it is to be honest :thumbsdown:

Nobody seems to be spending at the moment..... I wonder why ... flipping brexit :x

It’s not just zm’s though ..... pretty much all performance car sales are very very slow and that always brings the prices down

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Post by Ewazix » Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:22 am

It's been an asset led period in the economy where cash in the bank is pointless and credit is cheap so collectors investment cars did do well. That's probably all coming to an end.

Also I think the ///M has looked overpriced particularly compared to the 3.0 and 3.0Si, put simply is the ///M really worth 2, 3 or even 4 times more? Once you strip out the notion that it might be an investment asset and look at it in the cold light of day as a car, it isn't. Big tax and perceived maintenance costs won't help either.

It will be interesting to see where the performance and collector car markets go, I remember the classic and investment car bubble bursting in about 1990, it looks like a re-run is underway and once the chatter starts people bail out, slowly at first as sellers hold out for their price, then reality kicks in and they sell at a loss. It happened big style in 1990 and I'm sure it will again.
https://www.businessinsider.com/the-cla ... 017-5?IR=T
https://www.classiccarsforsale.co.uk/bl ... es-to-fall

Me? I'm pencilling in a cheeky classic purchase for about 2020-21 as I predict some big price drops particularly for cars that have been over-hyped in the bubble :)
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Post by Bodyboarder » Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:28 am

I probably bought mine at the wrong time ( 2 odd months ago for 20k with 54k on it , z4mc that is ) But if I do end up loosing a bit it won’t keep me up at night . These cars are the low end of performance cars / collectors items .... if I’d ‘invested ‘ some serious money in a old Porsche recently for inflated prices I’d be very worried :cry:

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Post by Simon 3.2M » Fri Sep 21, 2018 9:12 am

Bodyboarder wrote: Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:28 am I probably bought mine at the wrong time ( 2 odd months ago for 20k with 54k on it , z4mc that is ) But if I do end up loosing a bit it won’t keep me up at night . These cars are the low end of performance cars / collectors items .... if I’d ‘invested ‘ some serious money in a old Porsche recently for inflated prices I’d be very worried :cry:
They are at the low end so whilst prices my drop, I don't think you'll see less than 10 and 15k for a well presented roadster or coupe respectively. Take all of the "future classic" BS out of the equation and they are still one of the last proper drivers cars that isn't hamstrung by complicated electronics and that can be maintained predominantly by an enthusiast. For me the draw of the car is it's somewhat dated looks, large panel gaps and angular shape indicating a somewhat basic car in relation to todays cars. Then there's the engine, the clunky gear shift, the crashy and possibly overly stiff suspension - it all adds up to make it something quite unique that will always appeal to the car lover.
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Post by Angelus666 » Fri Sep 21, 2018 9:13 am

Ewazix wrote: Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:22 am It will be interesting to see where the performance and collector car markets go, I remember the classic and investment car bubble bursting in about 1990, it looks like a re-run is underway and once the chatter starts people bail out, slowly at first as sellers hold out for their price, then reality kicks in and they sell at a loss. It happened big style in 1990 and I'm sure it will again.
The world is a very different place to that period, and we are still in short supply compared to the global demand for classic performance cars. I've got a gut feeling that 2020 will come along and people will go, oh, Brexit, that seemed a lot of hot air over nothing....

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Post by mmm-five » Fri Sep 21, 2018 10:42 am

mr wilks wrote: Fri Sep 21, 2018 7:30 am Is it me or is the ///Market going the wrong way :? a 104k & a 111k ZMC both dealers both at £13995 ask price so room to go lower :cry:
My insurance valuation in mid-2016 was (before the addition of £5k for declared mods) £9.5k on a 150k mile, individual-spec Z4MC, and the closest I could find for insurance comparison was a 130k mile one for £13.5k.

If I'd have taken the insurance settlement of say £14k, then I could have bought that 130k miler and then spent another £5k getting it to the spec/level on my own (new clutch & flywheel, new diff, PSS10 suspension, Gruppe-M, Rogue Diablos). But it would never have made it an £18k car, so I pushed (with the help of a very detailed engineer's report) the insurance company to repair.

Mine will probably always be the very lowest end of the market if I was to sell, but I won't :P
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Post by flimper » Fri Sep 21, 2018 11:33 am

How many cars fit into this summary?

0-60 5 secs
Non-turbo
less than £25k to buy a good one
1500 kg or less
rare

Will always be desirable in my eyes, not really bothered how much it's worth as I'm not selling :)
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Post by Simon 3.2M » Fri Sep 21, 2018 11:44 am

flimper wrote: Fri Sep 21, 2018 11:33 am How many cars fit into this summary?

0-60 5 secs
Non-turbo
less than £25k to buy a good one
1500 kg or less
rare

Will always be desirable in my eyes, not really bothered how much it's worth as I'm not selling :)
Ditto - I'd only sell mine to get a Silver Grey coupe!!
Last edited by Simon 3.2M on Fri Sep 21, 2018 12:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Muckinonthesofa » Fri Sep 21, 2018 12:08 pm

Angelus666 wrote: Fri Sep 21, 2018 9:13 am
Ewazix wrote: Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:22 am It will be interesting to see where the performance and collector car markets go, I remember the classic and investment car bubble bursting in about 1990, it looks like a re-run is underway and once the chatter starts people bail out, slowly at first as sellers hold out for their price, then reality kicks in and they sell at a loss. It happened big style in 1990 and I'm sure it will again.
The world is a very different place to that period, and we are still in short supply compared to the global demand for classic performance cars. I've got a gut feeling that 2020 will come along and people will go, oh, Brexit, that seemed a lot of hot air over nothing....
I've gotta agree with that. Remember the millennium bug, the world was going to end? Bird flu, the world was going to end? The financial crisis, the world was going to end etc? I've personally never been affected by any doomsday horror scenarios. Apart from cheaper mortgage repayments.

Seems to me that things always seem to work out. Keep calm and drive your M's! :thumbsup:
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Post by Ewazix » Fri Sep 21, 2018 2:07 pm

Angelus666 wrote: Fri Sep 21, 2018 9:13 am
Ewazix wrote: Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:22 am It will be interesting to see where the performance and collector car markets go, I remember the classic and investment car bubble bursting in about 1990, it looks like a re-run is underway and once the chatter starts people bail out, slowly at first as sellers hold out for their price, then reality kicks in and they sell at a loss. It happened big style in 1990 and I'm sure it will again.
The world is a very different place to that period, and we are still in short supply compared to the global demand for classic performance cars. I've got a gut feeling that 2020 will come along and people will go, oh, Brexit, that seemed a lot of hot air over nothing....
Pretty sure I didn't mention the B word :?

The cash Vs asset and other market fluctuations are cyclical and totally predicable in terms of effect, but not timing. As soon as everybody starts treating purchases like a property or car as an investment and prices bubble, the result is predicable. I agree that the ///M is a great car, last of the iron horses etc etc. I'm just saying that the market pundits, movers and shakers are all talking about a price reversal for collectors cars. It has an effect and becomes self fulfilling. The same is happening with other assets, worldwide, including property, art, antiques etc etc. Time will tell. :|

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Post by Blaster » Fri Sep 21, 2018 2:29 pm

Took the Z4MR to BMW the other day to look at a JCW Mini and while we were there the i3. Bizarrely preferred the i3, perhaps because expectations were lower and it's fun, quick, different.

Anyway, whilst walking back to the Zed, a BMW salesman was admiring it ... his opening line was "you're not trading that in are you ... just don't, there is only one way that is going!"

:D

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Post by Jembo » Fri Sep 21, 2018 3:22 pm

I didn’t buy my //M to make money - bought it for me for the nostalgia, rarity, look, beautifully engineered engine, spec, colour & condition I wanted.

& as previously mentioned above, where can you buy a stock sub 5 second car for the current money in good cond... bundled up in a timeless shape

Learning recently well cared for convertable //M’s in Europe with 100k miles on the clock are going for £30k, am not bothered... the bubble may burst but every time it’ll comes back, bigger & stronger.

The passion these evoke is indescribable... with its faults...doesn’t matter to me. What does is having a chat with reasonable folk I wouldn’t normally get to meet, many of which have selflessly helped me out - some which just decide to come over & chat when parked up, though fortunately the misses hasn’t been about when some of them do - long may it continue, as bourne out by the continuous stream of new members here
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Post by Gustavo7 » Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:37 pm

Do you guys really get stopped by people that comment on the car?

In 4 years and 45.000 miles I have never had that. I get the impression that +99% of the people think it's a normal Z4.
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Post by Jembo » Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:49 pm

Gustavo7 wrote: Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:37 pm Do you guys really get stopped by people that comment on the car?

In 4 years and 45.000 miles I have never had that. I get the impression that +99% of the people think it's a normal Z4.
3 times since I bought it, mainly because of the colour, though more referring to forum meets
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Post by mmm-five » Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:55 pm

Gustavo7 wrote: Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:37 pm Do you guys really get stopped by people that comment on the car?
Yes, every time I get stopped for speeding :P

Used to happen in the M5 too. You'd have a stern talking to, and a ticket (about every 10th stop), and they'd comment on it being a 'lovely car' as the walked back to their 5 series (it always seems to be a velour-lined 5-series).
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