Bits to budget for / am I insane?

[R60BBA]

Out of interest on the camshaft point, which brand of oil was the car run on?

The bmw recommended Castrol TWS

Really?! I’ve heard of this with Millers but never Castrol.

That is interesting. *scratches head*

[groovy_hippy]

So...update on where my mind has been wandering...I enquired about one on Autotrader (the red one at circa 14k - not the one that's also for sale privately here ). Looking at its history, it looks like it was doted on until about 2016, where it changed owners and then things changed - e.g. it's MOT and tax lapsed for 2 years or so - could be fine, but I'd prefer one that's been 'kept alive' as it were. Also, this talk of engines going pop and such - I'm just not sure I can budget for that right now - that's not to say I won't be able to in the future though. I've always wanted a red one!

[mmm-five]

I wouldn't read too much into the tales on here, as there are probably over 100,000 S54s made, and many running into higher mileages with only scheduled maintenance, and there aren't thousands with major issues, so you're looking at a 1% chance. The engines in the earlier M3/Z3M were more prone to these than those in the later M3/Z4M.

The 3 well-known issues are:

• Vanos (mine's on the original)
• Rod bearings (mine lasted 140,000 miles)
• Water pump (I replaced mine at 100,000 miles)

But how many have failed due to any of these will be in quite low numbers.

Even my (2nd engine) lasted 140,000 miles albeit with shortened service intervals, i.e. oil change & oil/air filter every 6,000 miles, Inspection every year (based on 25-30k miles a year, including track days/ring trips)...and it's not one that could be said to have been used to 'drive Miss Daisy'

[BMWZ4MC]

I think most of the costs have been a little overstated to be honest, and camshaft / lifter failure is very rare indeed. Vanos / bearing shells I guess eventually will need doing but tons of facelift M3’s are way past 100k miles and still on original.

Roof motor relocation is £80 from Durham Dave, although I would recommend keeping it where it is and just pulling the bungs.

Water pump not an issue.

ABS pump refurb is £200 from ecutesting, with lifetime warranty.

If you are prepared to DIY the brakes then can easily be done for significantly less than a grand.

The insp2 is pricey for what it is, and in practice it’s very rare for the shims to need replacing... more often than not it’s measurement error as the tolerance is incredibly tight. Many get adjusted needlessly.

My comments re flattened followers, scored cams, Rod bearings and head gasket are all direct experience either on mine or my mates late model e46 m3, as are the costs quoted.

It sounds like your mate was somewhat overcharged for replacement cams and followers. Did he go OEM or upgrade?
After several forum threads about Z4Ms needing new cams and followers, I asked my Indy what would be the cost to replace both cam shafts and all the lifters in the event of failure. Bearing in mind that he has first-hand experience of doing the job previously, his price was ‘around £1500’. That was about five years ago, so even with inflation it shouldn’t be over £2000 now.
I’m aware of half a dozen Z4Ms that have had new cams and followers, and a similar number that have spun bearing shells. Most were not regular track cars. I think “very rare” understates the frequency of these, but I do agree it is not ubiquitous.

[Ed Doe]

It sounds like your mate was somewhat overcharged for replacement cams and followers. Did he go OEM or upgrade?
After several forum threads about Z4Ms needing new cams and followers, I asked my Indy what would be the cost to replace both cam shafts and all the lifters in the event of failure. Bearing in mind that he has first-hand experience of doing the job previously, his price was ‘around £1500’. That was about five years ago, so even with inflation it shouldn’t be over £2000 now.
I’m aware of half a dozen Z4Ms that have had new cams and followers, and a similar number that have spun bearing shells. Most were not regular track cars. I think “very rare” understates the frequency of these, but I do agree it is not ubiquitous.

New oe cams - £1,546
New schrick dlc followers x24 - £1476 (oe ones are even more expensive at £107 a pop!)
Fitting (including head gasket): £1580

Not sure where you're getting your costs from but guessing your indy was quoting based on you supplying the parts!

Fwiw it's possible to reduce the fitting cost by several hundred if you don't do the head gasket and instead remove most of the front end to get the follower tubes out. In my case I'd rather have my pistons inspected and know the head gasket is good before bolting it back up and getting on track again.

Also ironically the schrick cams are a couple of hundred cheaper than oe new ones - but when you factor mapping in it obviously becomes a more expensive route again.

[ph001]

I’m aware of half a dozen Z4Ms that have had new cams and followers, and a similar number that have spun bearing shells. Most were not regular track cars. I think “very rare” understates the frequency of these, but I do agree it is not ubiquitous.

Can't argue with what your saying, I just don't get how a similar percentage of failures are not seen on the M3. Given there are at least 10 times the qty of S54 engines in that car you think you would see a similar pattern but there doesn't appear to be (cams & followers I mean). Maybe it runs slightly hotter in the Z4M or something but I doubt it.

[BMWZ4MC]

It sounds like your mate was somewhat overcharged for replacement cams and followers. Did he go OEM or upgrade?
After several forum threads about Z4Ms needing new cams and followers, I asked my Indy what would be the cost to replace both cam shafts and all the lifters in the event of failure. Bearing in mind that he has first-hand experience of doing the job previously, his price was ‘around £1500’. That was about five years ago, so even with inflation it shouldn’t be over £2000 now.
I’m aware of half a dozen Z4Ms that have had new cams and followers, and a similar number that have spun bearing shells. Most were not regular track cars. I think “very rare” understates the frequency of these, but I do agree it is not ubiquitous.

New oe cams - £1,546
New schrick dlc followers x24 - £1476 (oe ones are even more expensive at £107 a pop!)
Fitting (including head gasket): £1580

Not sure where you're getting your costs from but guessing your indy was quoting based on you supplying the parts!

Fwiw it's possible to reduce the fitting cost by several hundred if you don't do the head gasket and instead remove most of the front end to get the follower tubes out. In my case I'd rather have my pistons inspected and know the head gasket is good before bolting it back up and getting on track again.

Also ironically the schrick cams are a couple of hundred cheaper than oe new ones - but when you factor mapping in it obviously becomes a more expensive route again.

You might be right about supplying parts since it was a hypothetical conversation around swapping to Schrick cams and followers. Apparently, Schrick buy OEM followers from BMW and do something to manipulate the case hardening such that they are less prone to fail. As such, they would be my preference even with OEM cams.

[BMWZ4MC]

I’m aware of half a dozen Z4Ms that have had new cams and followers, and a similar number that have spun bearing shells. Most were not regular track cars. I think “very rare” understates the frequency of these, but I do agree it is not ubiquitous.

Can't argue with what your saying, I just don't get how a similar percentage of failures are not seen on the M3. Given there are at least 10 times the qty of S54 engines in that car you think you would see a similar pattern but there doesn't appear to be. Maybe it runs slightly hotter in the Z4M or something but I doubt it.

Perhaps a greater proportion of E46 M3s have been used as daily drivers covering more motorway miles whilst more Z4Ms have been used for weekend hoons and as track cars. Or perhaps it’s reporting bias, since this forum sees a reasonable proportion of the total number of Z4Ms whilst there isn’t a single cohesive, definitive E46 forum.

[R_P_M_]

Are the z4m cams the same as those in the e46 (same part no's etc)? I heard someone say they're a CSL profile or something but never looked into it.

[Ed Doe]

Are the z4m cams the same as those in the e46 (same part no's etc)? I heard someone say they're a CSL profile or something but never looked into it.

Nah they're same as the e46 m3. The acs z4m supposedly had csl cams but the normal z4m intake manifold apparently but no z4m was mostly normal e46 m3