Not joined yet? Register for free and enjoy features such as alerts, private messaging and viewing latest posts and topics.
Z4M Crank Rod Bearing Shells
- MrPT
- Lifer
- Posts: 4746
- Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2012 7:44 pm
- Location: Bucks/Oxon
Z4M Crank Rod Bearing Shells
It won't be practical for most people, but having your journals widened to accept a larger (off the peg) bearing shell and rod end is an interesting option; particularly if your crank can't be polished and/or there is a fair bit of collateral engine damage. Then you will only have cam follower failure to worry about.
mmm-five, that is crappy luck and I hope you get things sorted soon, but fair play for being considerate of your friend's business.
mmm-five, that is crappy luck and I hope you get things sorted soon, but fair play for being considerate of your friend's business.
2008 Z4MC: heavy wheels | crap suspension | skittish rear end | wobbly engine | not enough induction noise | underwhelming turn in | inconsistent braking | lardy battery | chubby steering wheel
2006 Z4 2.5si: gone
2006 Z4 2.5si: gone
- tomscott
- Lifer
- Posts: 7472
- Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 12:26 pm
- Location: Manchester
- Contact:
Z4M Crank Rod Bearing Shells
At this stage why not try and find another one? Do some preventative and enjoy? that being said...mmm-five wrote: ↑Mon Jul 27, 2020 8:33 amYes. It's going to have an I2 and shells done before it goes in.BMWZ4MC wrote: ↑Sun Jul 26, 2020 8:57 pmHope your friend recovers soon and continues to keep well avoiding covid.
It’s good you got the correct engine and one of low mileage. Will you change the shells before it’s fitted?
I doubt there are many other Zeds that have had three engines (except a few race cars)!
Did consider cams, carbon CSL-style airbox & tune - but the cost was getting ridiculous, so will keep it standard for now.
Hopefully this 3rd engine will last as long the 2nd (140k), rather than the 1st (23k)
Ive got quite a few issues with mine nothing like this but it doesn't half annoy me, got hesitation which I need to get sorted, not too bad but its there and annoys me. Lots of niggly little jobs, xenon washer pipe is cracked pisses fluid everywhere, drivers window regulator failed last week, hand break is pretty much non existent, passenger side air duct is cracked, exhaust carriers need replacing, has a bulb warning light yet all lights are working, needs an insII, new tyres, rear disks and pads, just taxed and insured it. Probably be 5k by the time I feel like its road worthy without doing any of the things I want with it. Paintwork is poor, would like to refresh suspension its 14 years old and done 67k... probably should have the Vanos serviced and the bearings/engine/gearbox mounts changed etc Turing into a bit of a money pit.
Had a scare last week the whole steering wrack was making an awful noise scraping creaking awful. Don't know how but the heat shield was catching on the U joint... thankfully 5 seconds rather than 2k for a new steering rack.
Been trying to get it into Darren Wood but they are so back logged they are struggling to get me in anytime soon.
The problem with owning old cars never ending!
-
- Lifer
- Posts: 12722
- Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2008 1:03 pm
- Location: Liverpool
- Contact:
Z4M Crank Rod Bearing Shells
It is another engine from a 40k mile Z4M.
My old engine will be used for another project (in my mate's project e46 Touring)
Was considering rebuilding it and upgrading it, but then decided on a simpler/quicker route of a replacement engine!
- tomscott
- Lifer
- Posts: 7472
- Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 12:26 pm
- Location: Manchester
- Contact:
Z4M Crank Rod Bearing Shells
Fair enough
An E46 touring with an M3 drivetrain would be probably in my top 5 cars... would be such a great combo why BMW dont make more fast tourings ive no idea.
Do you watch roadkill on Motortrend? (if not def worth a watch basically bringing American muscle out of junkyards and doing ridiculous engine swap with stupid parts the cars dont deserve)
Would love someone to do a channel like that for german cars epic BMW engine swaps into cars they absolutely should have belonged in. I think a Z4M coupe with an S65 and supercharger would be a riot or a S85 de-catted with a manual trans in a Z4M coupe... sound like an old F1 car. An e89 with a S65 would also be high on my list
Regardless of whether they would be good I think it would be cool.
-
- Lifer
- Posts: 12722
- Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2008 1:03 pm
- Location: Liverpool
- Contact:
Z4M Crank Rod Bearing Shells
If the timelines are anything like my Z4MC, then he won't have it done until about 2030.tomscott wrote: An E46 touring with an M3 drivetrain would be probably in my top 5 cars... would be such a great combo why BMW dont make more fast tourings ive no idea.
I used to watch similar stuff, but it kept giving me ideas that I simply could not afford.tomscott wrote: Do you watch roadkill on Motortrend? (if not def worth a watch basically bringing American muscle out of junkyards and doing ridiculous engine swap with stupid parts the cars dont deserve)
Would love someone to do a channel like that for german cars epic BMW engine swaps into cars they absolutely should have belonged in. I think a Z4M coupe with an S65 and supercharger would be a riot or a S85 de-catted with a manual trans in a Z4M coupe... sound like an old F1 car. An e89 with a S65 would also be high on my list
Regardless of whether they would be good I think it would be cool.
My (pre-bearing failure) supercharger idea was nixed once the actual cost of everything was added up. The 500bhp kit looks affordable...until you start to add everything else into the build to make it properly usable & reliable. I think it was over £12k on essentials, before nice-to-haves were considered.
I will not have a car that I can't use as a daily without worrying about it, so nothing highly stressed or prone to more borkage than an S54 (so no S65 or S85). I'd probably go for a crate LS V8. But when you start spending stupid money you realise you might as well just buy an F10 M5/E63/RS6.
- Ed Doe
- Senior Member
- Posts: 2198
- Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2014 6:06 pm
- Location: Ashbourne or Frimley
Z4M Crank Rod Bearing Shells
If its of any interest (I will do a proper thread when I get to the bottom of the issue) my bottom end was inspected last week....... My crank was perfect with no scoring or wear, and bearings were slightly worn but perfectly in tolerance for bmw - so it wasn't a big end failure.... Top end inspection has revealed a flattened follower and slightly scored corresponding cam lobe, but shimming the follower right up hasn't removed the knocking noise. Still as yet undiagnosed, so causing me a few headaches!
Carbon Black '07 M Coupe: Intrax 1k2 Coilovers, AP-Racing, Raybestos ST45s, Tillets, Schroth, Vibratechnic, Apex EC7, Strongstrut, Eventuri, H&S, RTD, 4.1FD
Silver Grey '06 3.0si Coupe - SOLD
Silver Grey '06 3.0si Coupe - SOLD
- MrPT
- Lifer
- Posts: 4746
- Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2012 7:44 pm
- Location: Bucks/Oxon
Z4M Crank Rod Bearing Shells
That’s interesting. I would have thought a visibly flattened follower would “skip” on its lobe, regardless of clearance.Ed Doe wrote: ↑Mon Jul 27, 2020 3:43 pm If its of any interest (I will do a proper thread when I get to the bottom of the issue) my bottom end was inspected last week....... My crank was perfect with no scoring or wear, and bearings were slightly worn but perfectly in tolerance for bmw - so it wasn't a big end failure.... Top end inspection has revealed a flattened follower and slightly scored corresponding cam lobe, but shimming the follower right up hasn't removed the knocking noise. Still as yet undiagnosed, so causing me a few headaches!
It will need to be replaced, either way, because the hardened coating will have worn through (and the main body of the follower is like cheese in comparison, apparently). Did you already have higher lift cams or is this an opportunity that might now present itself?
2008 Z4MC: heavy wheels | crap suspension | skittish rear end | wobbly engine | not enough induction noise | underwhelming turn in | inconsistent braking | lardy battery | chubby steering wheel
2006 Z4 2.5si: gone
2006 Z4 2.5si: gone
-
- Member
- Posts: 738
- Joined: Sat May 11, 2019 10:12 pm
- Location: Thatcham, Berkshire
Z4M Crank Rod Bearing Shells
Most failures were caused by people not checking the oil , as vtec does like a little at a time. The F20c is for some unknown reason a bugger to read and weirdly can read different across the dipstick from one side to the other ! I had one in a Westfield. The other reason was that they didnt come with any baffling in the sump , so a combination of dumped clutches and low oil kills any engine pretty quickly.RedUn wrote: ↑Sun Jul 26, 2020 6:31 pmThe 100k thing is a vtec failure, lots of engines gone pop before then, mostly due to people skimping on maintenance and fuel choiceXMetal wrote: ↑Sun Jul 26, 2020 4:56 pmGoogle search tells me otherwise.SiJar wrote: ↑Sun Jul 26, 2020 10:02 am Well the Honda S2000 never suffered engine issues and that use to rev to almost 9k. I believe Honda used to say and advertise the fact that they never had a single engine fail below 100k miles. Not too sure how accurate that was but it was a terrific engine in its day for a 2 litre non turbo.
If I had an S54 engine , then it is a pretty highly tuned engine , to the point of race design, then 70k miles on a set of shells is peanuts in the grand scheme of things. I could have bought an MC at the time and its lovely car , but certain M Tax bills and its foibles made me go for the 3.0i Coupe. Just get them changed Iain for peace of mind. You will feel a lot more confident in the car and take that worry out the equation every time you start it.
E86 In sapphire black
-
OnlineMr Tidy
- Legend
- Posts: 23789
- Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2014 12:18 pm
- Location: North West Surrey
Z4M Crank Rod Bearing Shells
Thanks, that looks like what I'll be doing!Thrustyjust wrote: ↑Mon Jul 27, 2020 5:54 pm Just get them changed Iain for peace of mind. You will feel a lot more confident in the car and take that worry out the equation every time you start it.
Ross just changed a set in a 74K miler last week and most were showing copper. As my car has done 77K I've asked him for a quote!
To tomscott I've got a pair of headlamp washer pipes I don't need - just not the one from the reservoir to the "T" piece - PM me if you'd be interested.
Coupes because stunning!
Current - Silver Grey MC, Imola Red heated Nappa & carbon trim. Aeros, H & R Coil-overs, 224s, OE Strut brace, Nav, cup-holders, DSP Hi-Fi, pdc, cruise, MFSW, no CDV! E90 330i daily
Gone - Montego Blue
Gone - Ruby Black
Current - Silver Grey MC, Imola Red heated Nappa & carbon trim. Aeros, H & R Coil-overs, 224s, OE Strut brace, Nav, cup-holders, DSP Hi-Fi, pdc, cruise, MFSW, no CDV! E90 330i daily
Gone - Montego Blue
Gone - Ruby Black
- GuidoK
- Lifer
- Posts: 3171
- Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2010 1:37 am
- Location: all over the place
Z4M Crank Rod Bearing Shells
Do you believe that story from Lang racing?MrPT wrote: ↑Mon Jul 27, 2020 12:01 pm It won't be practical for most people, but having your journals widened to accept a larger (off the peg) bearing shell and rod end is an interesting option;
I'm sure they're a competent motor repair shop, but I just dont see them testing it. You know, take 10 engines, and drive 100k miles with each engine and then see if there's a different wear problem.
The point is, what they're doing isn't new at all. There's another famous bmw engine that revs to 8k+, similar in construction to the s54 and that particular engine has wider bearingshells than the s54. Thats the eurospec S50b32 like it was fitted in the e36 M3 and z3m. And that engine happens to probably even suffer from worse rodbearing issues....
So I don't think widening the shells with 1 or 2mm is going to bring the answer.
I also don't think the wear is a result of too much pressure/forces on the bearings.
Z4 3.0i | ESS TS2+ | Quaife ATB LSD | Brembo/BMW performance BBK front/rear | Schrick FI cams | Schmiedmann headers+cats | fully polybushed | Vibra-technics engine mounts | H&R anti rollbars | KW V3 coilovers | Sachs Race Engineering clutch
- MrPT
- Lifer
- Posts: 4746
- Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2012 7:44 pm
- Location: Bucks/Oxon
Z4M Crank Rod Bearing Shells
I don’t really know enough to have an opinion on it, just found it interesting.
2008 Z4MC: heavy wheels | crap suspension | skittish rear end | wobbly engine | not enough induction noise | underwhelming turn in | inconsistent braking | lardy battery | chubby steering wheel
2006 Z4 2.5si: gone
2006 Z4 2.5si: gone
- abar121
- Member
- Posts: 500
- Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2011 9:14 pm
Z4M Crank Rod Bearing Shells
There were serious issues with the earlier s2k engines, court cases which led to the F22 for the US market at least. Low mileage engines with plenty of oil were also affected. I used to follow the S2K forum yonks ago and there were many excellent threads on the subject. I always found them harsh at high revs, unlike the lovely engine note from a B18 or K20.Thrustyjust wrote: ↑Mon Jul 27, 2020 5:54 pmMost failures were caused by people not checking the oil , as vtec does like a little at a time. The F20c is for some unknown reason a bugger to read and weirdly can read different across the dipstick from one side to the other ! I had one in a Westfield. The other reason was that they didnt come with any baffling in the sump , so a combination of dumped clutches and low oil kills any engine pretty quickly.
If I had an S54 engine , then it is a pretty highly tuned engine , to the point of race design, then 70k miles on a set of shells is peanuts in the grand scheme of things. I could have bought an MC at the time and its lovely car , but certain M Tax bills and its foibles made me go for the 3.0i Coupe. Just get them changed Iain for peace of mind. You will feel a lot more confident in the car and take that worry out the equation every time you start it.
'07 Z4M Interlagos Blue. All options except extended leather.
-
- Member
- Posts: 234
- Joined: Mon Sep 09, 2019 7:45 am
Z4M Crank Rod Bearing Shells
Darragh (Everything ///M3’s) did mine - along with a host of other work - back in February. This was at 60k miles, which seems to suggest the cars been warmed up carefully and driven well over the years. Feels like they would have gone for another 60k miles... although I was never going to take that risk
- Attachments
-
- 7CE22542-B02E-487A-968B-BCD4E522FE07.jpeg (185.43 KiB) Viewed 930 times
Current -
-2003 TVR Cerbera AJPV8
-1986 Audi 200 Turbo Quattro Avant
Gone - 2006 ///MR, Interlagos blue with extended black leather
-2003 TVR Cerbera AJPV8
-1986 Audi 200 Turbo Quattro Avant
Gone - 2006 ///MR, Interlagos blue with extended black leather
- GuidoK
- Lifer
- Posts: 3171
- Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2010 1:37 am
- Location: all over the place
Z4M Crank Rod Bearing Shells
Those look good as they dont have the characteristic oval wear spots.
That's how it starts (before the copper shines through etc).
Those 2 shells where it looks like little pieces of the layer started breaking out is a bit odd. Maybe that's how it starts prior to the oval spots.
But overall very little wear even for 60k miles, so you can be assured your engine has been treated very well over the years.
That's how it starts (before the copper shines through etc).
Those 2 shells where it looks like little pieces of the layer started breaking out is a bit odd. Maybe that's how it starts prior to the oval spots.
But overall very little wear even for 60k miles, so you can be assured your engine has been treated very well over the years.
Z4 3.0i | ESS TS2+ | Quaife ATB LSD | Brembo/BMW performance BBK front/rear | Schrick FI cams | Schmiedmann headers+cats | fully polybushed | Vibra-technics engine mounts | H&R anti rollbars | KW V3 coilovers | Sachs Race Engineering clutch
-
- Member
- Posts: 194
- Joined: Mon May 28, 2012 11:08 pm
Z4M Crank Rod Bearing Shells
Shells 2 and 3 on the top left look concerning, as if the layer has chipped off/delaminated, rather than worn smoothly which is what I'd expect to see. Did that happen during the removal process or where they like that? If so there might be some fragments floating about in the oil/filter. Not seen wear like that before.
2008 Z4MR Silver Grey
2017 Audi A6 Avant Quattro 3.0 BiTdi
2003 Clio 172 Cup
2017 Audi A6 Avant Quattro 3.0 BiTdi
2003 Clio 172 Cup