BBK pad advice for hard track use

[BMWZ4MC]

I used to run EBC Blues on my track car, but if they get too hot they just crumble away - was getting 2-3 trackdays from a set on the front. Have now switched to Performance Friction PF08s and they're a lot better - have done 6 trackdays with great performance, and they're only half worn.

they do more aggressive compounds so could mix and match a bit (PF10s on the front, and 08s on the rear for example). Just throwing another name out there for you!

I found that with EBC Yellowstuff with stock callipers and discs. Changing to Bluestuff fixed problem but now I’m running APs in higher ambient temperatures, I’m seeing the same problem again. I’m hoping BTCC pads will be more than up to the task!

[BMWZ4MC]

Interestingly, since fitting KW Clubsports, the car has very little pitch under hard braking and the rear brakes get just as hot as the front after a few laps.

Hi Richard, glad you're enjoying Oz. Same with the AC Schnitzer Racing suspension on my Z4MC which highlights how bad the OEM suspension is and how the problem of pitch, roll and squat can be easily corrected to improve handling and performance.

Agreed - the benefits of a well set up suspension were evident as soon as I applied the brakes at the end of the first straight. The car remained flat and stopping distances were markedly reduced compared with OEM or Eibachs with stock dampers. Being able to carry more speed through corners is an added benefit.

[ph001]

With regards to measuring discs temps, rather than using an infrared thermometer with the car at stand still, you can but cheap adhesive indicators that you apply to the top outer edges of the disc. The stickers change colour permanently when the preset temperature has been a exceeded. You can get them in various transition point from 200’C to over 1,500’C!

[Argenta]

I still see people mentioning Yellowstuff's (now I did it too) but i would not touch them with a very long stick - unless it's a car never reaching any sort of track action.

[mmm-five]

I still see people mentioning Yellowstuff's (now I did it too) but i would not touch them with a very long stick - unless it's a car never reaching any sort of track action.

If you're going for EBC, then Yellowstuffs are a fast road pad. Bluestuffs if you want to track it, and Orangestuff if you want to ruin your discs (or go racing)

[BMWZ4MC]

With regards to measuring discs temps, rather than using an infrared thermometer with the car at stand still, you can but cheap adhesive indicators that you apply to the top outer edges of the disc. The stickers change colour permanently when the preset temperature has been a exceeded. You can get them in various transition point from 200’C to over 1,500’C!

Sounds like a good idea in prospect but less practical than using an IR thermometer between sessions on a track day. I might try to get some to measure the max temp over an entire day on track and use an IR thermometer during the day.

[BMWZ4MC]

I still see people mentioning Yellowstuff's (now I did it too) but i would not touch them with a very long stick - unless it's a car never reaching any sort of track action.

If you're going for EBC, then Yellowstuffs are a fast road pad. Bluestuffs if you want to track it, and Orangestuff if you want to ruin your discs (or go racing)

I’ve not used Orangestuff but Bluestuff are absolutely good enough for track use with OEM callipers. I found Yellowstuff were ok for road use but overheated on the track.

[brillomaster]

Hmmm i wont be using bluestuffs again... proper pads are twice as expensive, but so far last at least 4x as long, so actual brake cost per trackday has halved. And the better pads feel better too.

[mmm-five]

Hmmm i wont be using bluestuffs again... proper pads are twice as expensive, but so far last at least 4x as long, so actual brake cost per trackday has halved. And the better pads feel better too.

My experience was the opposite...but on standard calipers.

The RS29s lasted 2 Oulton Park trackdays (well, 1.5 actually as the inner N/S pad decided to fly out when braking down from 110mph into Knickerbrook at Oulton).

The Bluestuffs lasted 2 trackdays (at Oulton & Cadwell) and 2 x 30 lap Ring Trips.

Since I've gone over to the Porsche Brembos on all 4 corners, I like the feel of the RS29s more than the Bluestuffs (and took the Orangestuffs out after 4 laps of the Ring as I wasn't using them hard enough)...even if they cost me almost 3 times the price for half the life.

However, since I not doing the 20,000+ road miles alongside track/ring trips, I've noticed a huge downward trend of miles to replacements of discs/pads/tyres

[brillomaster]

I think my problems may have been related to a lack of cooling with the standard discs and calipers set up... I managed donington and snetterton on the old setup with bluestuffs, and by 4 in the afternoon at snetterton the discs were very very hot, fluid had boiled, and the pads were crumbling away.

when I switched the PF08s I also took out the front fogs which put in a lot more cooling into the wheel wells, so its possible another set of bluestuffs would have held up better, but at the time I'd only ever used EBC products so thought I'd try something different.

I guess key takeaway as always is heat management, need enough heat to get tyres and brakes up to optimal operating temperature, but then also a way of dissipating heat to keep things in their operating window after sustained lappery!

[Franzino]

I only tested EBC once on my e46 and found it rather crap...no way I would fit these on my car that sees intense track usage (personal opinion).

I had my Z4M from 2010 until the end of 2018...the car was fitted with AP brakes and extra brake cooling ducts (see picture) from 2011 (full BBK front and rear). These brakes are awesome (with the right pads). I experimented with different Pagid pads during the years (I drove 80% Nurburgring / 10% Spa / 10% Other tracks). The best braking power, best brake balance and awesome initial bite was with RS-14 (front) and RS4-4 (rear). After a couple of year I switched to RS-29 (front) and RS4-4 (rear). Because RS-29 is a bit easier on the discs then RS-14 and you only lose a small bit of less initial bite (still awesome braking power and awesome brake balance). With RS-14 I had some premature big cracks in the edge of the front AP rotors (got them replaced under warranty from AP)...but switched to RS-29 to prevent this in the future. I never had any issue's with RS(L)-29 on my Z4M and on my M2...and I'm a heavy and late braker on track.

[Franzino]

As some side info....the top pads are the one in my M2 (standard brakes) and the bottom are the one of the AP brakes of my Z4M. Same contact area in size but different approach (4 piston vs 6 piston).

[BMWZ4MC]

Thanks Franzino, that’s really useful

How are you finding the M2 as a track car vs the Z4M now you’ve had it for a while? I’ve heard conflicting reports. I know an aggressive but not very sympathetic driver who keeps having problems with his on track (ranging from the engine overheating through to repeatedly cooking the brakes), and I also know a retired professional racing driver who absolutely loves it in manual guise and rates it against his Elise as a track car.

[eggman]

On my daily driven 2006 Z4M Roadster I have an AP Racing Radical BBK from Essex on the fronts, stock Z4M calipers in the rear. I have ECS Tuning rotors in the rear, but they are stock size (they just have a replacable rotor). The only performance mods are the BBK, an Eventuri intake, and Apex ARC-8 18" wheels.

I have been running Ferodo DS 1.11 pads on the front, and DS.2500 pads on the rears. If there is a gap in between track days, I will swap in DS.2500 pads on the front for daily driving.

During track days, I turn traction control off completely as I found that leaving it on causes excessive wear on the rear pads.

I did use DS.2500 pads on the fronts, but find they wear out too quickly when used agressively on the track.

I love the AP Racing brake setup. I think I will swap out the stock rears for an AP Racing Radical setup from Essex. I will think about that after I do a coilover upgrade.

Both compounds of Ferodo pads generate a lot of dust. The 2500s wear out pretty quick even when just used on the rears. The DS 1.11s are enduro pads and seem to have good life. They last well on the track, I've not noticed any material degradation during 20 minute track day sessions.

Hope this helps and happy to follow this thread and learn from it.

Cheers,
Eamonn

[z4mcc]

I ran Pagid rs29 on my supercharged m3 with k-sports and they were miles. Better than the blue.

I also swapped out blues on my e36 m3 track car for CL rc6 and again a massive improvement in feel and durability.

I have also had success with carbotec xp8 and 10.

Ebc have just launched a new track pad but I’ve not tried it yet.