3.0si to M

[Status]

Pick my M coupe up tommorrow after selling my Phoenix yellow coupe,loved my si

[srhutch]

I've driven an M - this thread is closed!!

Don’t leave us hanging.

Although we can guess your thoughts

[Simon 3.2M]

I'm definitely getting an M, even if I only own it for a year or two. Someone mentioned it is an "event" driving one of these, well I couldn't agree more. On paper it is true, they are evenly matched however in the real world, they aren't!! They are brutal....just how a sports car should be

[R60BBA]

Tbf, I’ve never driven a Z4M but have driven an E46 M3 which is more or less the same platform (just weighs slightly more).

The difference between the N52 and the S54 is not as big as one might initially think.

The N52 ticks all the boxes, it is fast enough, has good low end torque, revs to 7,000rpm, sounds good and is smoother than the S54.

The S54 feels like it has less torque (even though it doesn’t) which requires the driver to rev the engine all the way up to 8,000rpm. For town driving this isn’t as handy, however once past 4,000rpm the sound of the S54 is another level and I’m sure would be noticeable on a race track.

Picking one over the other all depends on the purpose of the car. If you want a good sports car which is relatively cheap to run I would highly recommend the N52. However if you want a faster car which is a bit more raw, and on the edge then I highly recommend the S54.

IMHO one cannot say the S54 dicks over the N52 in all departments...as it doesn’t.

[Simon 3.2M]

Tbf, I’ve never driven a Z4M but have driven an E46 M3 which is more or less the same platform (just weighs slightly more).

The difference between the N52 and the S54 is not as big as one might initially think.

The N52 ticks all the boxes, it is fast enough, has good low end torque, revs to 7,000rpm, sounds good and is smoother than the S54.

The S54 feels like it has less torque (even though it doesn’t) which requires the driver to rev the engine all the way up to 8,000rpm. For town driving this isn’t as handy, however once past 4,000rpm the sound of the S54 is another level and I’m sure would be noticeable on a race track.

Picking one over the other all depends on the purpose of the car. If you want a good sports car which is relatively cheap to run I would highly recommend the N52. However if you want a faster car which is a bit more raw, and on the edge then I highly recommend the S54.

IMHO one cannot say the S54 dicks over the N52 in all departments...as it doesn’t.

No it doesn't I agree, I currently have a very well sorted N52 that is more than enough car for most of us. I'll come back to my comment that the M is more of an "event" to drive. I will take your point in that it doesn't feel as fast initially but then you look down at the speedo and you are definitely travelling!! Again I'll take you point regarding town driving, this will take some getting used to but it is quite driveable - people need to remember that whilst these cars perform better further up the rev range, this doesn't mean they have to be constantly driven there. The M for me is more old school motoring and is essentially not as refined as the N52. I've found my N52 to be a great all round car with the exhaust note that is somewhat muted....and there is the big difference - the N52 is more refined daily driver so I won't suddenly slate the N52, its a brilliant car. The M appears to sit in a lesser window and be more focussed (at the top of the rev range) which at this moment in time, is what attracts me to it as a sports car. I also hope that if I sell in a year or two I won't lose a fortune - if anything. Do I buy into the future classic narrative? not at the moment, in time maybe but it will be the pristine low mileage examples that will command big money.
In the ideal world the SI would have a LSD and probably closer to 300bhp...but it doesn't and it is what it is..its a highly capable car. For the money it's very difficult to find an alternative car in both performance and looks. I love mine and if the M doesn't work out I'd go back to one in a heartbeat!

[R60BBA]

Fully agreed.

One of the main reasons of me moving (bar the badge) was that the M should (in theory at least) hold its value better.

I toyed with the idea of getting Birds to stick a Quaife in my Z4C however I would lose all of this money on re-sale.

Also whilst I was on the Nurburgring I could only stay with the E46 M3s for a few corners before they started to pull away.

As I’m planning to do more track driving I thought I might aswell get a faster car

[abar121]

Having tried both N52 and S54 variants, there is a massive difference. The Z4M is a lot lighter than an E46 M3 too and easily pulls away from one on track. Not exactly without faults and I do love the N52 , but every drive is an event in the M.

From an earlier comparison:

To give you some idea of the engine difference.

On the same dyno from the US Rototest site. The US Z4M also has a more restrictive exhaust header.

Untitled (1).jpg (52.92 KiB) Viewed 1254 times

Z4 3.0 M54, Z4 3.0si N52, ,Z4M S54

What it doesn't tell you is the awesome sound those six throttle bodies make with the roof down!

[Smartbear]

Having tried both N52 and S54 variants, there is a massive difference. The Z4M is a lot lighter than an E46 M3 too and easily pulls away from one on track. Not exactly without faults and I do love the N52 , but every drive is an event in the M.

From an earlier comparison:

To give you some idea of the engine difference.

On the same dyno from the US Rototest site. The US Z4M also has a more restrictive exhaust header.

Untitled (1).jpg

Z4 3.0 M54, Z4 3.0si N52, ,Z4M S54

What it doesn't tell you is the awesome sound those six throttle bodies make with the roof down!

Veering off post for a moment, this confirms my thoughts that the 2.0 n20 z4 (mapped) fits into the narrow gap between the n52 & s54 engined cars.
You can see the effect forced induction has on the torque output!

E4521987-C2BD-49E1-885D-ECA0A2238332.jpeg (250.87 KiB) Viewed 1249 times

Rob

[R60BBA]

The E46 M3 is 80kg heavier (that’s practically the average weight of having a passenger in a Z4M Coupe).

If you remove the roof and install a CSL roof you lose 100kg which would make the M3 lighter than the Z4M Coupe. You can also delete the rear seats, swap out of the heavy fronts for Recaro Pole Positions and replace the backbox with a lighter system...

The Z4 probably feels faster because you sit in a lower position and are closer to the rear wheels. Yet both have more or less the same 0 - 60 times and the same times on track.

The reason why I feel that the S54 doesn’t ‘feel as fast in the low end’ as my Coupe is because peak torque kicks in at 4,900rpm where as peak torque comes in at 2,800rpm in the N52.

The difference is not night and day in normal driving.

However as previously noted - is on track.

[abar121]

The physics don't lie, unlike many of the figures on fastest laps. Did you know that MX5s have long been five second cars to sixty. I'll take two please.

Anyway, take your pick and enjoy! Goodbye.

[R60BBA]

https://youtu.be/3gzv7kL2Vi4

Watch from 2:04

Don’t get me wrong I would prefer a Z4M Coupe over an E46 M3 but unfortunately the insurance costs 3x more so I have to wait.

[TomK]

If you remove the roof and install a CSL roof you lose 100kg

er, not even close. IF you have a sunroof car you'll lose around 25kg, if not around 5kg. I have the exact amounts when I did the conversion to my CS somewhere.

My M3CS (which had the sunroof option like most) weighed over 100kg more than my Mcoupe stock, which for sure I felt, and the performance between the two was noticeable.
For me the Z is a far more enjoyable car to drive fast than the m3, though for sure the M3 trumps it in normal driving duties.
It's also nice to know that you don't have to worry about the shocking RACP design of the e46 platform, no wonder pretty much any M3 you see going on track these days is caged and tied into that area, woeful engineering by bmw.

I haven't driven a 3.0si so I'll stop waffling now

[Simon 3.2M]

Ultimately the fact is that after a period of time any car won't feel as fast as it did when you first drove it and this thread is about the Z4M and the 3.0si in comparison to one another. Both have merits and both have drawbacks, the si is an everyday, every man's driveable car that is comfortable, predictable and fun to drive in a myriad of different settings, the M is probably less so. Some say the S54 is fragile and must have the valves and bearing shells done and is one drive aware from blowing up. Some indy's say they've never had to adjust the valves some say they have, some say the shells have worn on low mileage cars, some say engines with 150k+ that have been thrashed on the track have been fine. Most do say that as long as the correct grade / quality oil is used and they are allowed to warm up they are generally bullet proof. When it comes to the si people bemoan the imminently failing water pumps, the failing solenoids or the blocked internal CCV. If I get an M I intend to keep it stock and appreciate the car for what it is - I won't be bombing around on public roads at killer speeds, I wont be exploiting its full potential on the track either. What I will be doing is enjoying driving a car that is something a little out of the ordinary and good fun. I could blow up 2 miles down the road, it could last forever - it's a collection of metal parts and metal wears over time, you can only do your best to mitigate that with proper maintenance, oil and letting the engine warm up properly - as you should do with any car! As I've mentioned, for me they are chalk and cheese with the added bonus that if looked after, come sale time you shouldn't loose too much if anything and it is relatively easy to jump back into an si if it doesn't work out.

[idej_z4]

I've never driven an ///M

Ultimately the fact is that after a period of time any car won't feel as fast as it did when you first drove it and this thread is about the Z4M and the 3.0si in comparison to one another. Both have merits and both have drawbacks, the si is an everyday, every man's driveable car that is comfortable, predictable and fun to drive in a myriad of different settings, the M is probably less so. Some say the S54 is fragile and must have the valves and bearing shells done and is one drive aware from blowing up. Some indy's say they've never had to adjust the valves some say they have, some say the shells have worn on low mileage cars, some say engines with 150k+ that have been thrashed on the track have been fine. Most do say that as long as the correct grade / quality oil is used and they are allowed to warm up they are generally bullet proof. When it comes to the si people bemoan the imminently failing water pumps, the failing solenoids or the blocked internal CCV. If I get an M I intend to keep it stock and appreciate the car for what it is - I won't be bombing around on public roads at killer speeds, I wont be exploiting its full potential on the track either. What I will be doing is enjoying driving a car that is something a little out of the ordinary and good fun. I could blow up 2 miles down the road, it could last forever - it's a collection of metal parts and metal wears over time, you can only do your best to mitigate that with proper maintenance, oil and letting the engine warm up properly - as you should do with any car! As I've mentioned, for me they are chalk and cheese with the added bonus that if looked after, come sale time you shouldn't loose too much if anything and it is relatively easy to jump back into an si if it doesn't work out.

I've never driven an ///M so my thoughts are based purely on what I do know...although I might add I was getting pretty close recently to potentially making the switch but life happens and things change very quickly.

What I would say is that the things that worried me were the cost of road tax (double), service (double) and parts (harder to come by and therefore more expensive). It also costs more in fuel and insurance. With that in mind I was always conscious that if the ///M didn't feel worth double my money I probably wouldn't make the switch. Reading this thread though it is likely that it isn't double the car, but that isn't the point! Maybe I'm just not rich enough yet to own an ///M if Im always looking over my shoulder at general running costs.

One thing I would say though is I don't totally agree with your comments around what you'll lose in a couple of years, especially on the Coupe versions I've had my Si Coupe for over two years now and reckon I've lost around £1,500...maybe £1,750 at the most. I don't think that amount is much different to what I would lose on an ///M if I did the same mileage.

[mmm-five]

I’ve only ever had the M version of BMWs.

My 3.6 e34 M5 felt nimbler/quicker than my later 3.8 e34 M5, but this was simply due to the fact that the 3.6 was about 100kg lighter and the engine revved a bit more freely.

Being 30bhp/left down meant it wasn’t as fast in real life (acceleration or top speed), but it felt it.

However, I’d happily have a non-M coupe, as long as it had the same enhancements as my current M (including the hydraulic steering). I’d even have a non-manual, if SMG was available, but not a full-auto.