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M coupe v v8 M3

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mad4slalom
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M coupe v v8 M3

Post by mad4slalom » Sat May 12, 2018 6:25 pm

Hi all, anyone on here had both an mcoupe or roadster and then tried a V8 m3. ? Just curious how they compared, is the v8 more sanitized or still wild like the z4m? Are they na or turbo ? With over 400 bhp on tap they should be a different league again, tentatively looking at one although it is auto which i dont really fancy but the m box can be a pain so may be better. Any opinions or comparisons welcome. Many thanks πŸ‘

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Post by Z4M-2006 » Sat May 12, 2018 6:28 pm

Drive one...

Dont sell your coupe before you do...

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Post by buzyg » Sun May 13, 2018 12:15 am

They are na. Nice engine and light compared to the S54. The rest of the car is not so light and basically a tricked up 3series. I believe they are pretty evenly matched on track, though the extra gg"s do offer a little more at the top end. As said take one for a spin. Then stick with the Zed. :wink:
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Post by philbo909 » Sun May 13, 2018 9:09 am

Sapphire black z4 coupe 135,000miles young

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Post by mark seeker » Sun May 13, 2018 10:56 am

I think it really depends what you need / want from the car, I test drove a couple of manual E92 M3s and whilst they were impressive to me it still felt like a 3 series BMW with a lovely engine. I felt you sit just too high and the car to me felt like a great family car which would be a brilliant daily driver, I didn't get the sense that it would be an event car.

I have heard that if you delete the mufflers / replace the OEM exhaust you can really hear that high revving V8 and if you need back seats then...I would probably buy a C63.
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Post by RedUn » Sun May 13, 2018 12:10 pm

Barges with a stunning engine :thumbsup:
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Post by mad4slalom » Sun May 13, 2018 8:32 pm

Well i went for a closer look and yes definately a bit of a barge with the top down, a bit plasticky inside in places and a bit too old manny yet, like my mates sl 55 amg, Beautiful engine but several seconds slower than the z4m around top gear track. πŸ‘

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Post by Jaw » Mon May 14, 2018 10:00 am

mad4slalom wrote: ↑Sun May 13, 2018 8:32 pm Well i went for a closer look and yes definately a bit of a barge with the top down, a bit plasticky inside in places and a bit too old manny yet, like my mates sl 55 amg, Beautiful engine but several seconds slower than the z4m around top gear track. πŸ‘
it was wet vs a dry z4 lap, the M3 laps the ring much quicker than the Z from memory?

On top gear website: E90 Saloon 1:25:3 Z4M 1:26

The problem with comparing the two is that most people who lean towards either do so because it ticks what they're after which are rather unique to the both.. For what some people call Raw in the Z, others call Crashy, clunky. For what some call precise in the M3, others call boring. etc

I have a late 13 Competition pack Coupe. It has the revised M dynamic Mode, lower suspension, csls etc, It out handles, out turns, out paces the Z4 in every aspect. It's not much heavier (well, if you compare to c63s etc) and feels more nimble imho. But to really feel that benefit, you have to use it at 7 tenths.

i can't comment as to how the age and spec changes things but I thought the 92 was a bit doughy when I drove it around town 4 years or so ago, but this year before I bought one hit some extremely twisty twisties and it made sense. The Z4 was all over the shop but still fun on the same corners and I couldn't get to the same speeds or confidence levels.

M3 looses some drama compared to the 4M which it only claws back when you're bounding over 6000rpm and pointing towards a 90 degree bend and slam between gears, with the DCT it is so so addictive.

I could ramble on, honestly it's the best of both worlds car I've owned, found it more engaging than the RS4, more precise than the C63, more precise than the Z4 with newer tech and better spec and a familliar but beefier roar. But it depends on your driving style and how you'll be using it - if going for a convertible, don't expect the same exprience, don't think I enjoyed the convertible for some reason. didnt feel as sharp or special.

And that's as someone who loves and wants another Z4. Theyre both very different and a big amount of it will depend on where and how you will use it.. you can't replace top down blats in the Z, you can only find other things to enjoy ;)
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Post by RedUn » Mon May 14, 2018 11:45 pm

Jaw wrote: ↑Mon May 14, 2018 10:00 am
mad4slalom wrote: ↑Sun May 13, 2018 8:32 pm Well i went for a closer look and yes definately a bit of a barge with the top down, a bit plasticky inside in places and a bit too old manny yet, like my mates sl 55 amg, Beautiful engine but several seconds slower than the z4m around top gear track. πŸ‘
it was wet vs a dry z4 lap, the M3 laps the ring much quicker than the Z from memory?

On top gear website: E90 Saloon 1:25:3 Z4M 1:26

The problem with comparing the two is that most people who lean towards either do so because it ticks what they're after which are rather unique to the both.. For what some people call Raw in the Z, others call Crashy, clunky. For what some call precise in the M3, others call boring. etc

I have a late 13 Competition pack Coupe. It has the revised M dynamic Mode, lower suspension, csls etc, It out handles, out turns, out paces the Z4 in every aspect. It's not much heavier (well, if you compare to c63s etc) and feels more nimble imho. But to really feel that benefit, you have to use it at 7 tenths.

i can't comment as to how the age and spec changes things but I thought the 92 was a bit doughy when I drove it around town 4 years or so ago, but this year before I bought one hit some extremely twisty twisties and it made sense. The Z4 was all over the shop but still fun on the same corners and I couldn't get to the same speeds or confidence levels.

M3 looses some drama compared to the 4M which it only claws back when you're bounding over 6000rpm and pointing towards a 90 degree bend and slam between gears, with the DCT it is so so addictive.

I could ramble on, honestly it's the best of both worlds car I've owned, found it more engaging than the RS4, more precise than the C63, more precise than the Z4 with newer tech and better spec and a familliar but beefier roar. But it depends on your driving style and how you'll be using it - if going for a convertible, don't expect the same exprience, don't think I enjoyed the convertible for some reason. didnt feel as sharp or special.

And that's as someone who loves and wants another Z4. Theyre both very different and a big amount of it will depend on where and how you will use it.. you can't replace top down blats in the Z, you can only find other things to enjoy ;)
I think that sums it up pretty well, they are just different cars at the end of the day :thumbsup:

The only point for me is that after driving a comp spec I didn't think too much of the handling as you describe, I was close to buying one and that was the bit that really put me off tbh. Maybe it's one of them cars that takes some miles to fully appreciate it? :driving:

I often wonder if I should have bought one or not, who knows!
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Post by buzyg » Tue May 15, 2018 12:05 am

Something we don't discuss much here is the difference in settup and handling between the MC and the MR. The one time I drove a standard MC I hated it, put me off ever considering one. The MR is far more compliant down the sort of roads I enjoy driving on? I expect the MC suits a more continental road surface. :wink: I mention this as the OP tried the vert M3. Which is not how he designers originally pend the car. So has lost some of their original intent whilst looking better in the eyes of some. Sound familiar. :roll:
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Post by Jaw » Tue May 15, 2018 11:18 am

RedUn wrote: ↑Mon May 14, 2018 11:45 pm
I think that sums it up pretty well, they are just different cars at the end of the day :thumbsup:

The only point for me is that after driving a comp spec I didn't think too much of the handling as you describe, I was close to buying one and that was the bit that really put me off tbh. Maybe it's one of them cars that takes some miles to fully appreciate it? :driving:

I often wonder if I should have bought one or not, who knows!
Could well be - You'll find posts on here from a year or two ago saying I had no interest in them :rofl:

I'd be really interested to try some of the different years / platforms (saloon/coupe/convertible) / competition / non competition and the same stretch of road over a good weekend or so and see the differences :driving: Part of why I hate the way BMW has gone. An M was once an M, now it's an M.. with....

buzyg wrote: ↑Tue May 15, 2018 12:05 am Something we don't discuss much here is the difference in settup and handling between the MC and the MR. The one time I drove a standard MC I hated it, put me off ever considering one. The MR is far more compliant down the sort of roads I enjoy driving on? I expect the MC suits a more continental road surface. :wink: I mention this as the OP tried the vert M3. Which is not how he designers originally pend the car. So has lost some of their original intent whilst looking better in the eyes of some. Sound familiar. :roll:
It's a good point, Same as before, would love to try the two back to back properly, I was always of the opinion that the Coupe would be much more handle-able (despite having a Roadie it's what I always read).
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Post by bradz » Thu May 17, 2018 9:14 am

Drive one and make up your own mind...

I had a 3.0si Coupe... wanted something else, drove a M3 V8... Really wanted to like it as it ticked all the boxes, it just didn't excite me enough, So bought a Z4MC, That engine in a Z4M though would be amazing! :evil:
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Post by tomscott » Thu May 17, 2018 10:30 am

Thats the issue with the M3 on paper it seems spot on, great engine at a similar weight to the S54 with 2 more cylinders. It sounds the balls too and the car actually doesn't weigh a great deal more for a car with a bigger boot and 4 useable seats. 1,655kg of the M3 vs 1,470kg for the coupe or 1,450kg for the roadster.

With the additional power of the V8 they should feel similar in pace. The drive is on the other hand completely different.

You cant get away from the fact that the M3 is a 3 series with a more powerful engine. The car is larger and the E92 especially compared to the E46 as it was designed for the US market. The two m3s compared, the E46 is like a go kart.

Its a placebo effect the M3 vs Z4M is a more comfortable, better insulated place to be as its based on at the time the best in class coupe/saloon which are family/rep cars. But on paper performance is almost the same.

On the other hand the Z4M is more like a prestige kit car - a comfortable cabin but raw inside. Loud and can be pain to drive long distances in. I went from a 320si saloon to my M coupe, it had the standard exhaust and used to drone on the motorway and took me a long time to get used to. My first trip was from Cumbria to Newcastle, got out feeling very tired and with a head ache thinking did I do the right thing... simply because the 3 series was so quiet and refined in comparison. Its obvious the Z4M it was a side project compared to the M3 which was far more commercial and the sales numbers also show this.

The Z is designed as a sports car, you sit low to the ground and the car is very communicative in some respects in negative ways. The way the seats sit over the rear axle makes it feel skitish and a bit of an axe murderer whereas your relatively cocooned in the M3 and sit really high up really strange position when your used to the Z.

The main thing with the M3 is that it felt big and heavy although the engine is fantastic it just doesn't have that get up and go like the Z, probably because of the extra weight but then once you get up to 6k the engine ignites and is an absolute hoot but you have to ring it all the time and it has such a gallop and long gears that its just not that much fun, straight roads its balstic. Whereas the S54 has 90% of torque at 2000rpm the V8 is at 4000rpm. The Z feels so much more fun to drive on A and B roads...

The m3 also had woeful MPG get on it like 60-70% and it was in the mid teens most of the time... in 2007/8/9 when the economic crash happened and fuel prices had a sharp rise it really was a drag. Β£70-80 getting 200 odd miles... even being gentle never saw more than 25-26 on a long motorway cruise. In the Z I averaged 26 throughout my ownership.

Not that fuel really matters but if its a daily you need to factor that in. Doing 8-12k a year at 15-23mpg is going to do some damage.

On the track is a different matter and BMW significantly improved the M3 with newer variants.

The one my father had was an pre facelift bought new traded his E46 for it which I loved.

ImageBMW E46 M3, Alston, Hartside, Cumbria, CSL wheels by Tom Scott, on Flickr

I remember the reviews at the time... Chris Harris bought one before he was a fairly well known. I remember the videos he made for autocar, being so frustrated with it, the GTR had just come out too and although on paper they were similar in power, it minced the M3 everytime and was within 1/10th everytime 0-60 0-100. The m3 was all over the place. The M3 didnt have any fancy electronics and getting it off the start line was very difficult. Struggled to get the power down.

There was a lot of reviews that concluding that it was pretty average... The face lift improved greatly with the DCT and there were sus changes and it became a lot more electronic. By the end the competition packs were really quite capable but people had moved on and that original stigma stuck with the latter cars. There were also lots of good cars in 2011-2012 and the competition cars with the full spec were really quite eye watering. The later ones really seem to keep their value being the last naturally aspirated M car.

Ordered on launch it was a nearly 60k and took 8 months to get here so ended up with a 57 as they were hard to get hold of. 3 years 25k miles traded it in for a 911 and got Β£27k for it :| they were like lead balloons and the fact the economy in 2009 was a disaster and nobody wanted them. I remember the salesman he literally didnt want it... making all sorts of excuses m3s were all over forecourts at the time. It was in the release colour and I remember him mentioning that the colour was a bit marmite... I was like its red...

Couple of pics of it with my 320SI at the time

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At the same time the later cars lost a bit of the feel of the M3. Although the pre facelift was very mechanical with competition the later cars lost more of the BMW M feel with the added electronics. The pre facelift with the manual was still a raw car just not the same as the Z.

BMW continued with that direction with pressure to make cars that were predictable and competitive with other cars in the same bracket. We have ended up with the new M3/4 which have in my mind pretty much lost the essence of what an M car is. Like being on gran turismo rather than driving yourself... engine noises piped through the cabin, rapid auto boxes etc etc

So really if you look at it like that the M3 was really the last bastion and you can buy well.

On the other hand they still dont come close to the E46 M3 and E85/6 Z4M.

I would be quite happy running an E46 as a daily and a Z4M as a weekender even today.

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Post by Angelus666 » Thu May 17, 2018 8:14 pm

Really nice review there Tom... :thumbsup:

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