Thrashed Z4 M's

[Silverzedtom]

I’d say an ///M is even more likely to be a weekend car than a non M, as owners would have been / are generally more likely to own or have access to another car.

Buying a used car is a total lottery. It could have all the stamps and receipts in the world but it doesn’t count for anything as you just don’t know how the cars been used. I’d still want full service history and wouldn’t even go and look at one that didn’t ’t have running in service paperwork - Largely for resale value. I went into Cotswold bmw a while ago and noticed an m4 gts. few thousand miles, running in service... looked great. Then I looked at the tyres, burn marks right up to shoulders.

Whilst I’m at it I also think a higher number of owners is a good thing within reason. Different people drive differently so the car and engine will be used at varying rpm’s etc. I certainly wouldn’t want to buy a car that had only ever been driven slowly / not seen the higher side of the rev counter.
Cars need frequent use and need a good blast from time to time.

[Bing]

whenever I see an M, they tend to fall into three categories, at traffic lights, when they go green, accelerate like mad and in a 100 yards brake like mad for the next red,, drive it like your granny and note who is looking at you, or the true enthusiast who takes it out on the twisty`s after warming it up to enjoy it, but to be honest it hard to thrash a car like that with all the cameras and traffic we have anyway

I wonder if you’ve ever seen me, and which category I fall into

[RustyZ4]

whenever I see an M, they tend to fall into three categories, at traffic lights, when they go green, accelerate like mad and in a 100 yards brake like mad for the next red,, drive it like your granny and note who is looking at you, or the true enthusiast who takes it out on the twisty`s after warming it up to enjoy it, but to be honest it hard to thrash a car like that with all the cameras and traffic we have anyway

I wonder if you’ve ever seen me, and which category I fall into

Well as I haven't seen an M around Maidstone recently, Im guessing you fall into the "take it out on the twisty`s" then again it might be a garage queen

[RustyZ4]

I do have to clarify here, most M`s I see are either 3 or 5`s, the odd 4 series and very rarely a Z

[Vanne]

trashed or not, they are built pretty darn strong. Stamps or not, as long as you have a mechanical eye for condition, buy with confidence. If you don't have a mechanical eye or bone in your body, take someone with you who does, or PPC it.

[mr wilks]

Dear Op ,
I'm considering buying a used piece of rope , what length should i expect it to be ?
Cheers

Se Si or S54 the game of chance buying used is no different

[Bing]

whenever I see an M, they tend to fall into three categories, at traffic lights, when they go green, accelerate like mad and in a 100 yards brake like mad for the next red,, drive it like your granny and note who is looking at you, or the true enthusiast who takes it out on the twisty`s after warming it up to enjoy it, but to be honest it hard to thrash a car like that with all the cameras and traffic we have anyway

I wonder if you’ve ever seen me, and which category I fall into

Well as I haven't seen an M around Maidstone recently, Im guessing you fall into the "take it out on the twisty`s" then again it might be a garage queen

Definitely not a garage queen - I’ve put 50k on it in the last 4 years

But a lot of that is motorway miles, so only really bombing around on the weekends. Driven carefully till warm, then driven properly whenever possible.

[RustyZ4]

I wonder if you’ve ever seen me, and which category I fall into

Well as I haven't seen an M around Maidstone recently, Im guessing you fall into the "take it out on the twisty`s" then again it might be a garage queen

Definitely not a garage queen - I’ve put 50k on it in the last 4 years

But a lot of that is motorway miles, so only really bombing around on the weekends. Driven carefully till warm, then driven properly whenever possible.

Motorway miles around here !!! don't get over 30 then

[tomscott]

Its a sportscar and designed as such.

Look at any modern sports car for sale with pedegree they all have weaknesses its about doing your research and knowing what the weaknesses are and what to do.

Its fairly safe to say that all Ms will have been driven hard at some point, whats the point in having a sportscar without driving it hard every once and a while. That being said it is designed as such and the fact this engine is 20 years old and there are very few failures on engines from 2002 onwards. The Z4 especially as it was the last car this engine was implemented in, completely missed all the issues of the early engines. In the 7 years ive been a member I can think of 3-4 cars in total that have had engine failure. Many of those were either well used track cars or cars that hadn't been cared for properly or very unlucky people.

There are S54s with well over 150k on the clock, the fact this engine was at one point the highest output for a NA engine and the red line being so high its incredibly impressive.

At the end of the day the earliest Z4M is now 12 years old and there are a few of obvious things that you should look for. More detail can be found throughout the site with the search function.

1. Run in service - just make sure its done on time or within 10% IMO its not worth the risk.

2. Ensure the cars service history is correct. Oil every 2 years, make sure the cars had its inspections on time, inspections are milage based not time, but its not uncommon to see inspections early as a lot of cars are garage queens and dont hit the milage. Make sure the correct work is carried out. Many third party garages tick INS I and II when they do oil services but not carry out the correct work, look for specialists and contact them to see what level of service they offer etc ensure of valve adjustment. Generally if the service schedule has been done on time and properly the car will be mechanically sound. You can google to see what the inspections involve.

3. These engines are very tapperty, dont worry they are loud it doesn't mean its imminently going to blow up, many people new to the S54 get very concerned about the noise... If its knocking thats a different thing all together but sounds very different. Knocking is very rare on these engines and usually means its overheated at some point which again is extremely rare. Only case I can remember is some work was done and the system not put together correctly and a delivery driver didnt watch the temps.

4. Check paperwork, see what has been done. If the paperwork is well documented that would give you a good indication that its been well looked after. Go through all MOTs, advisories give an idea on how the car has been looked after. For example if at every MOT the tyres are down to the markers it doesn't fill you with confidence for other expenditure. These cars were super cheap in 2011-12 coupes with under 40k could be had for 17-18k and roadsters even less. Made them available to a lot of people.

If paperwork is thin then its not the end of the world but it gives wiggle room. Only you can decide.

5. Buying a low milage car isnt always the best idea. Cars are designed to move and if they sit seals dry up, rubber components deteriorate etc etc Its not a given but generally lower milage cars will probably have done quite a few short journeys and thats not great for engines like this that take 10-15 mins to get to temp. There are obvious signs to check for this, bolster wear, steering wheel and gear stick shininess all show short journeys on low mileage cars. Still this wouldnt put me off again the lumps are very durable.

6. Think about the time you will own the car. Consumables are good value imo for the performance offered but add up considerably and generally things need doing all at the same time. Make sure the car has had recent disks and pads all round, its roughly £7-800 an axle they last roughly 30-40k depends on the driver. Make sure INS have been done as that could be £5-800, tyres £5-900 depending on your preference etc etc an averaged price car that needs all this doing quickly turns into the value of a better example.

Essentially if all the above is done, you are consumable free for the next 2 years and the car will be very good value to run. Just ensure you know the costs going forward. Many owners tend to keep these a year 18 months to dodge costs, loads of examples are like this at premium prices just because there is hype surrounding these cars, can quickly end up costing more than you expected. Again if you know what your looking for its all wiggle room.

With the above, all within your own margin of expectation (everyone is different) buy on condition, mileage isnt really a big deal. Just make sure the cabin is in good condition and expect wear, they are low and somewhat difficult to get in and out of. Check bodywork for panel alignment, over spray, check in the boot under the trim for signs of accident damage, same with the engine bay. Dont be surprised if front bumper and skirts have chips/damage, Z4s are low and susceptible to stone chip and rash, on the same token dont be surprised if there has been paint work to remedy this.

There are additions which may or not apply but worth knowing about depending on what your buying.

7. There are out of service schedule items which are still serviceable, just not in the 3-5 year time frame BMW expected to offer these for sale. The weak point of these cars is the half shell bearings (rod bearings), as the engine doesn't have a dry sump it is susceptible to oil starvation in this area if the car is not allowed to warm up and oil circulated properly. Tolerance are low and they wear as a matter of course you cant get away from it. That being said the bearings are designed to last the BMW warrantied serviceable life of the car which BMW would say is 100k. Many have replaced them at 80k and they have been fine, others have seen wear at 60k and others have had them removed over 120k and they are still in decent condition. There have been cases of extremely warn bearings on cars with 40k. Whats worth knowing is that if your looking at a higher mileage car its probably worth having some money put aside to get this done anywhere between 80-120k. I would say 100k is a decent mark to aim for. Once its done its a worry you can put to bed. If you want to know get the oil changed in the car and let it run for 6-12 months and get the oil sent away for analysis and the particulates will give you an indication. Again there are threads upon threads about this, dont go and read up and get worried just know its a consideration.

8. There are other serviceable items that again are not in the schedule for the same reason as above. The engine mounts are rubber and one I think the passenger side, is right next to a heat shield and tends to go quicker than the other. Regardless the youngest car is 10 years old now and these will most likely be perished or well on their way. There was also issues with engine bolts which can come loose, might as well get these replaced at the same time. For no.7 and the bolts and mounts all done together your looking at around £1200 small amount in my mind to have piece of mind. Any good specialist can do this.

9. Vanos, much improved on these engines but the older they get the more cases will come along. Again these can be rebuilt at not huge cost by specialists but they are again reliable and there arent a huge amount of cases.

10. Have a little fund set aside. There are other problems that can arrise which would make this post even more of an essay, these happen on all cars with age. Culprits will be suspension, springs are well known for breaking, joints will have play with age. Will be fairly obvious from MOTs etc and a quick drive will let you know whether the handling is woolly or not. Break lines will corrode, xenon bulbs can go etc etc The positives is that there isnt anything really you can point at and say... This will break and there is nothing you can do about it.

At the end of the day the list is extremely short for a car of this performance and caliber. My advice is to know all of the above but if the majority is in good order buy with confidence. In terms of service history it will almost be impossible to get a car thats only BMW serviced. Make sure the oil is done, the inspections are important but you can always have an inspection done on purchase to ensure all is in order.

If in doubt pay £150 and have the car inspected then you will know exactly what your looking at. Its money well spent.

Just know there are a lot of poor examples, current prices (unlike the Porsche market) dont make this obvious as they are relitevely new to the lime light, they sold so poorly and are rare because they were slated at launch and the Boxster was arguably a better car. There are dogs for high money just because of rarity and association with these cars being a popular choice currently.

At the end of the day the prices have risen, they are safe investments if bought well and looked after. You could put 20K on and sell for similar money down the line. I bought mine in 2011 and sold it in 2015 for about £1000 loss after I put 25k on it. 2015 was just before the market rise and now a similar car would cost roughly 22-23k.

That is the coupe market tho the roadster market seems to be fairly level with prices topping at around 22k for super low milage cars and for leggy ones 10-12k.

Worth bearing in mind that the 3.0SI is about 95% on the road will cost half the amount and is more bullet proof and costs far less to look after, insure, tax but the M is certainly a gem in modern motoring and should be on every single petrol heads list in either form.

Hope this helps

[Fishy Dave]

It’s extremely difficult to determine what has happened to a car that is at least ten years old. I’ve used mine for frequent track days for nine years and I’ve regularly driven it hard on country lanes. However, I’m mechanically sympathetic so it’s thoroughly warmed up and has oil services every few thousand miles. I certainly don’t fall into the ‘polish, admire and never drive’ category but my car is mechanically sound and cosmetically good so it would be impossible to tell how I’ve used it.
Your best bet is to meticulously review the service history and the car itself, if necessary taking someone with you who has experience of the car and engine.
A contingency fund for unforeseen disasters is wise for cars that are mechanically complicated and potentially expensive. The S54 is a fantastic engine but that description fits.

This

[louie12]

Its a sportscar and designed as such.

Look at any modern sports car for sale with pedegree they all have weaknesses its about doing your research and knowing what the weaknesses are and what to do.

Its fairly safe to say that all Ms will have been driven hard at some point, whats the point in having a sportscar without driving it hard every once and a while. That being said it is designed as such and the fact this engine is 20 years old and there are very few failures on engines from 2002 onwards. The Z4 especially as it was the last car this engine was implemented in, completely missed all the issues of the early engines. In the 7 years ive been a member I can think of 3-4 cars in total that have had engine failure. Many of those were either well used track cars or cars that hadn't been cared for properly or very unlucky people.

There are S54s with well over 150k on the clock, the fact this engine was at one point the highest output for a NA engine and the red line being so high its incredibly impressive.

At the end of the day the earliest Z4M is now 12 years old and there are a few of obvious things that you should look for. More detail can be found throughout the site with the search function.

1. Run in service - just make sure its done on time or within 10% IMO its not worth the risk.

2. Ensure the cars service history is correct. Oil every 2 years, make sure the cars had its inspections on time, inspections are milage based not time, but its not uncommon to see inspections early as a lot of cars are garage queens and dont hit the milage. Make sure the correct work is carried out. Many third party garages tick INS I and II when they do oil services but not carry out the correct work, look for specialists and contact them to see what level of service they offer etc ensure of valve adjustment. Generally if the service schedule has been done on time and properly the car will be mechanically sound. You can google to see what the inspections involve.

3. These engines are very tapperty, dont worry they are loud it doesn't mean its imminently going to blow up, many people new to the S54 get very concerned about the noise... If its knocking thats a different thing all together but sounds very different. Knocking is very rare on these engines and usually means its overheated at some point which again is extremely rare. Only case I can remember is some work was done and the system not put together correctly and a delivery driver didnt watch the temps.

4. Check paperwork, see what has been done. If the paperwork is well documented that would give you a good indication that its been well looked after. Go through all MOTs, advisories give an idea on how the car has been looked after. For example if at every MOT the tyres are down to the markers it doesn't fill you with confidence for other expenditure. These cars were super cheap in 2011-12 coupes with under 40k could be had for 17-18k and roadsters even less. Made them available to a lot of people.

If paperwork is thin then its not the end of the world but it gives wiggle room. Only you can decide.

5. Buying a low milage car isnt always the best idea. Cars are designed to move and if they sit seals dry up, rubber components deteriorate etc etc Its not a given but generally lower milage cars will probably have done quite a few short journeys and thats not great for engines like this that take 10-15 mins to get to temp. There are obvious signs to check for this, bolster wear, steering wheel and gear stick shininess all show short journeys on low mileage cars. Still this wouldnt put me off again the lumps are very durable.

6. Think about the time you will own the car. Consumables are good value imo for the performance offered but add up considerably and generally things need doing all at the same time. Make sure the car has had recent disks and pads all round, its roughly £7-800 an axle they last roughly 30-40k depends on the driver. Make sure INS have been done as that could be £5-800, tyres £5-900 depending on your preference etc etc an averaged price car that needs all this doing quickly turns into the value of a better example.

Essentially if all the above is done, you are consumable free for the next 2 years and the car will be very good value to run. Just ensure you know the costs going forward. Many owners tend to keep these a year 18 months to dodge costs, loads of examples are like this at premium prices just because there is hype surrounding these cars, can quickly end up costing more than you expected. Again if you know what your looking for its all wiggle room.

With the above, all within your own margin of expectation (everyone is different) buy on condition, mileage isnt really a big deal. Just make sure the cabin is in good condition and expect wear, they are low and somewhat difficult to get in and out of. Check bodywork for panel alignment, over spray, check in the boot under the trim for signs of accident damage, same with the engine bay. Dont be surprised if front bumper and skirts have chips/damage, Z4s are low and susceptible to stone chip and rash, on the same token dont be surprised if there has been paint work to remedy this.

There are additions which may or not apply but worth knowing about depending on what your buying.

7. There are out of service schedule items which are still serviceable, just not in the 3-5 year time frame BMW expected to offer these for sale. The weak point of these cars is the half shell bearings (rod bearings), as the engine doesn't have a dry sump it is susceptible to oil starvation in this area if the car is not allowed to warm up and oil circulated properly. Tolerance are low and they wear as a matter of course you cant get away from it. That being said the bearings are designed to last the BMW warrantied serviceable life of the car which BMW would say is 100k. Many have replaced them at 80k and they have been fine, others have seen wear at 60k and others have had them removed over 120k and they are still in decent condition. There have been cases of extremely warn bearings on cars with 40k. Whats worth knowing is that if your looking at a higher mileage car its probably worth having some money put aside to get this done anywhere between 80-120k. I would say 100k is a decent mark to aim for. Once its done its a worry you can put to bed. If you want to know get the oil changed in the car and let it run for 6-12 months and get the oil sent away for analysis and the particulates will give you an indication. Again there are threads upon threads about this, dont go and read up and get worried just know its a consideration.

8. There are other serviceable items that again are not in the schedule for the same reason as above. The engine mounts are rubber and one I think the passenger side, is right next to a heat shield and tends to go quicker than the other. Regardless the youngest car is 10 years old now and these will most likely be perished or well on their way. There was also issues with engine bolts which can come loose, might as well get these replaced at the same time. For no.7 and the bolts and mounts all done together your looking at around £1200 small amount in my mind to have piece of mind. Any good specialist can do this.

9. Vanos, much improved on these engines but the older they get the more cases will come along. Again these can be rebuilt at not huge cost by specialists but they are again reliable and there arent a huge amount of cases.

10. Have a little fund set aside. There are other problems that can arrise which would make this post even more of an essay, these happen on all cars with age. Culprits will be suspension, springs are well known for breaking, joints will have play with age. Will be fairly obvious from MOTs etc and a quick drive will let you know whether the handling is woolly or not. Break lines will corrode, xenon bulbs can go etc etc The positives is that there isnt anything really you can point at and say... This will break and there is nothing you can do about it.

At the end of the day the list is extremely short for a car of this performance and caliber. My advice is to know all of the above but if the majority is in good order buy with confidence. In terms of service history it will almost be impossible to get a car thats only BMW serviced. Make sure the oil is done, the inspections are important but you can always have an inspection done on purchase to ensure all is in order.

If in doubt pay £150 and have the car inspected then you will know exactly what your looking at. Its money well spent.

Just know there are a lot of poor examples, current prices (unlike the Porsche market) dont make this obvious as they are relitevely new to the lime light, they sold so poorly and are rare because they were slated at launch and the Boxster was arguably a better car. There are dogs for high money just because of rarity and association with these cars being a popular choice currently.

At the end of the day the prices have risen, they are safe investments if bought well and looked after. You could put 20K on and sell for similar money down the line. I bought mine in 2011 and sold it in 2015 for about £1000 loss after I put 25k on it. 2015 was just before the market rise and now a similar car would cost roughly 22-23k.

That is the coupe market tho the roadster market seems to be fairly level with prices topping at around 22k for super low milage cars and for leggy ones 10-12k.

Worth bearing in mind that the 3.0SI is about 95% on the road will cost half the amount and is more bullet proof and costs far less to look after, insure, tax but the M is certainly a gem in modern motoring and should be on every single petrol heads list in either form.

Hope this helps

As a new MR owner myself I find this post incredibly useful and well explained. I believe I'm lucky as mine has come from another forum member (VRSteve) who without doubt looked after the car. It's still useful to know what else to look out for so thanks for that Tom

[Fishy Dave]

1. Run in service - just make sure its done on time or within 10% IMO its not worth the risk.

Good post Tom, but as you'd perhaps expect I disagree with this point. What are you risking by buying a car that has had its running in service done at 800 or 1600 miles? Yes, if you are looking for a mint, investment car or to continue a BMW warranty, but in all other cases an early or late running in service is very unlikely to affect the engine health of the car. I've proven that the oils used from the factory are the same as those changed by the dealers. Now the cars are 10+ years/50k miles old there are other far more important factors than worrying about a running in service changed 1000 miles late (in my opinion). I've recently been contacted by an owner that has a mint, low mileage M that is mortified that his BMW owned car didn't have its running in service until 3000 miles, mine was done at a similar mileage with no ill effects at 55k miles and plenty of trackdays.

as the engine doesn't have a dry sump it is susceptible to oil starvation in this area if the car is not allowed to warm up and oil circulated properly.

If the car had a dry sump it would still be a problem. It's the lack of warm up and tight tolerances that seem to be the problem rather than oil starvation or lack of a dry sump.

[Marlon]

Great write up Tom, particularly like your nod to what's been called the 'sweet spot' in the Z4 range the 3.0si

[srhutch]

whenever I see an M, they tend to fall into three categories, at traffic lights, when they go green, accelerate like mad and in a 100 yards brake like mad for the next red,, drive it like your granny and note who is looking at you, or the true enthusiast who takes it out on the twisty`s after warming it up to enjoy it, but to be honest it hard to thrash a car like that with all the cameras and traffic we have anyway

I wonder if you’ve ever seen me, and which category I fall into

Well as I haven't seen an M around Maidstone recently, Im guessing you fall into the "take it out on the twisty`s" then again it might be a garage queen

That's because you've never been on a run with the South East lot

There are 4 ///MR's out on a good day.

[Beedub]

1. Run in service - just make sure its done on time or within 10% IMO its not worth the risk.

Good post Tom, but as you'd perhaps expect I disagree with this point. What are you risking by buying a car that has had its running in service done at 800 or 1600 miles? Yes, if you are looking for a mint, investment car or to continue a BMW warranty, but in all other cases an early or late running in service is very unlikely to affect the engine health of the car. I've proven that the oils used from the factory are the same as those changed by the dealers. Now the cars are 10+ years/50k miles old there are other far more important factors than worrying about a running in service changed 1000 miles late (in my opinion). I've recently been contacted by an owner that has a mint, low mileage M that is mortified that his BMW owned car didn't have its running in service until 3000 miles, mine was done at a similar mileage with no ill effects at 55k miles and plenty of trackdays.

as the engine doesn't have a dry sump it is susceptible to oil starvation in this area if the car is not allowed to warm up and oil circulated properly.

If the car had a dry sump it would still be a problem. It's the lack of warm up and tight tolerances that seem to be the problem rather than oil starvation or lack of a dry sump.

The actual technical literature for the s54 notes this sport54 engine as semi dry sump.... because of some sort of separation in the sump and dual pickups.... not sure i understand the reasoning totally for calling it semi dry sump but.... their you have it.