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Just-Right's Splitter and Canard Development - Update 28-8-2018

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Just-Right's Splitter and Canard Development

Post by Attilio » Mon Apr 30, 2018 8:12 am

TomK wrote: Tue Apr 24, 2018 10:48 pm
Beedub wrote: Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:57 pm Shut up and take my money.
:rofl:
ditto
Take mine too! :)
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Just-Right's Splitter and Canard Development

Post by just-right » Mon Apr 30, 2018 8:24 pm

Mangozac wrote: Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:18 pm I have no comments of value to provide, but I'm really enjoying seeing this process so please continue to share!
Thanks Mangozac. I will continue to share updates so please do chime in!
MrPT wrote: Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:45 pm There has been a nice influx of talented b*stards recently. :thumbsup: :D
Hehehe I try :lol:
beanie wrote: Sun Apr 29, 2018 11:13 pm Having briefly been involved with some wind tunnel tests a few years back, I’ve become very skeptical of any ‘aero’ mods performed by most enthusiasts, so seeing this kind of work being performed on our platform really is great to see :thumbsup:

Do you plan to do any work on the side ducts that vent in to the wheel arch or plan to experiment with other areas of the body?

Also,I don’t suppose you scanned the underside of the car by any chance? Would the scan data be useful enough for simulations?
Any interesting wind tunnel tests if you don't mind sharing? :D At the moment I don't have any work planned for the side ducts themselves. The mass flow through the side ducts did increase with the first canard iteration. It will be interesting to see how this evolves as I keep refining the designs.

During the reverse engineering we managed to capture the larger underside details. I have ommited all the nitty gritty like bolts and fixings in the interest of simulation turn around.

Long term I would like to design and develop some components for other areas as well. The aim is to create a bit of a performance package. :thumbsup:
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Just-Right's Splitter and Canard Development

Post by beanie » Mon Apr 30, 2018 11:28 pm

Sadly there's nothing of any particular interest really, at least nothing as exciting as working on a supercar or lemans racer! We were doing early testing on a full size model of a medium SUV to try and reduce its drag-this amounted to nothing more than screwing on a few bits of aluminium as makeshift lower air dams and sticking on a few bits of aluminium tape here and there! :D I can't remember the numbers now but I seem to remember making decent gains with it and it not fairing too badly. Simulation work carried on for a while after but unfortunately the project was canned before things got anywhere near production. Was a good learning experience though and really opened my eyes to how even just small changes can have quite a large cumulative effect.

It's great that you got so much information to work with, I'm sure there are plenty of track junkies out there, across all marques, that would happily pay for a thoroughly engineered aero package 8) I'm really looking forward to seeing where you go with this :)
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Just-Right's Splitter and Canard Development

Post by MrPT » Mon Apr 30, 2018 11:47 pm

I remember reading that the Z4MC generates quite a lot of rear lift. The cockpit is set very far back, so the airflow doesn’t stick to the rear window very well, and there isn’t really any underbody area to use to generate aerodynamic grip unless you heavily modify the exhaust and/or extend the floor illegally. Not an issue for most of us, thankfully!
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Just-Right's Splitter and Canard Development

Post by mmm-five » Tue May 01, 2018 9:18 am

MrPT wrote: Mon Apr 30, 2018 11:47 pm I remember reading that the Z4MC generates quite a lot of rear lift. The cockpit is set very far back, so the airflow doesn’t stick to the rear window very well, and there isn’t really any underbody area to use to generate aerodynamic grip unless you heavily modify the exhaust and/or extend the floor illegally. Not an issue for most of us, thankfully!
You could fit a rear gurney flap, ducktail spoiler, or GT wing.

There are also rear diffusers/undergraysto smooth the flow from the rear. I think there was an OE one, a FancyWide aluminium version, and Goke/Slek/Varis carbon ones were all available at one time or another.
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Just-Right's Splitter and Canard Development

Post by MrPT » Tue May 01, 2018 10:36 am

mmm-five wrote: Tue May 01, 2018 9:18 am
MrPT wrote: Mon Apr 30, 2018 11:47 pm I remember reading that the Z4MC generates quite a lot of rear lift. The cockpit is set very far back, so the airflow doesn’t stick to the rear window very well, and there isn’t really any underbody area to use to generate aerodynamic grip unless you heavily modify the exhaust and/or extend the floor illegally. Not an issue for most of us, thankfully!
You could fit a rear gurney flap, ducktail spoiler, or GT wing.
That's what would be interesting to model - the back of the coupe drops off like a hatchback and it's hard to imagine anything other than a GT wing making much of a difference. A WRC-style wing at the top of the window might work well, but that's going to look proper fugly. :D
There are also rear diffusers/undergraysto smooth the flow from the rear. I think there was an OE one, a FancyWide aluminium version, and Goke/Slek/Varis carbon ones were all available at one time or another.
Ah, nice - some of them look quite serious. At least they have proper vanes instead of the "humps" you get on some aftermarket diffusers.
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Just-Right's Splitter and Canard Development

Post by just-right » Wed May 02, 2018 10:25 pm

Sounds like a nice project beanie. Sometimes small changes can definitely have a large effect.

You are right MrPT. From the simulations I have found that the rear actually produces some lift. There is quite a bit of flow accelarating over the a and to a less extent c-pillar. The flow - although tired - is staying attached over the rear window and this increases the acceleration over the roof. The consequent pressure drop is causing a decent amount of lift over a large area. The fact that the cockpit sits a bit further rearward worsens this by being more directly above the rear axle.

The current splitter and canard design cleans up and manages some of the flow to the rear of the car and as such helps to reduce the rear lift. I will first focus on these projects but some rear items could well be on the horizon to rebalance the downforce distribution. :thumbsup:

Keep the comments and discussions coming :driving:
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Just-Right's Splitter and Canard Development

Post by exdos » Sun May 06, 2018 12:00 pm

Just-Right,

It's great to see your work on the aerodynamics of the Z4MC with CFD. A few years back, I did some back of a fag packet DIY undercar aero stuff on my Z4MC which, from the seat of my pants, feels as though it improves handling at higher speeds and started a thread about it here:
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=65142&hilit=under+c ... 5c760c8c63

If you ever get around to doing a CFD of the underside of the car I'd be interested to learn if any of my ideas actually "work". :thumbsup:

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Post by Z4C_er » Sun May 06, 2018 2:25 pm

exdos wrote: Sun May 06, 2018 12:00 pm Just-Right,

It's great to see your work on the aerodynamics of the Z4MC with CFD. A few years back, I did some back of a fag packet DIY undercar aero stuff on my Z4MC which, from the seat of my pants, feels as though it improves handling at higher speeds and started a thread about it here:
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=65142&hilit=under+c ... 5c760c8c63

If you ever get around to doing a CFD of the underside of the car I'd be interested to learn if any of my ideas actually "work". :thumbsup:
Hi Exdos, I'd love to see the pics, but they've died! Can you repost?
Oh, and nice colour Zed BTW... :thumbsup:
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Just-Right's Splitter and Canard Development

Post by exdos » Sun May 06, 2018 3:21 pm

Z4C_er wrote: Sun May 06, 2018 2:25 pm
Hi Exdos, I'd love to see the pics, but they've died! Can you repost?
Oh, and nice colour Zed BTW... :thumbsup:
The photos are still on Photobucket and I find that if you use Google Chrome as your browser when using this forum, and open the link in that, you should see the thread with all illustrations. :thumbsup:

Congratulations on the best choice of colour of your car!

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Just-Right's Splitter and Canard Development

Post by just-right » Sun May 06, 2018 7:54 pm

exdos wrote: Sun May 06, 2018 12:00 pm Just-Right,

It's great to see your work on the aerodynamics of the Z4MC with CFD. A few years back, I did some back of a fag packet DIY undercar aero stuff on my Z4MC which, from the seat of my pants, feels as though it improves handling at higher speeds and started a thread about it here:
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=65142&hilit=under+c ... 5c760c8c63

If you ever get around to doing a CFD of the underside of the car I'd be interested to learn if any of my ideas actually "work". :thumbsup:
Back of an envelope / fag packet engineering does wonders! Like Z4C_er I can't seen any of the pictures, although I am using Google Chrome.

All of the simulations feature a full car and also incorporates the underside. I need this to model the exit conditions of the front splitter accurately.
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Just-Right's Splitter and Canard Development

Post by exdos » Sun May 06, 2018 8:15 pm

just-right wrote: Sun May 06, 2018 7:54 pm Back of an envelope / fag packet engineering does wonders! Like Z4C_er I can't seen any of the pictures, although I am using Google Chrome.
I'm a Mac user and Safari is my browser of choice and all Photobucket photos now don't open in Safari, Firefox nor Opera but do open in Chrome on my Mac. I tested this before I posted earlier and just retested now. I can't think how to get around this for you. Photobucket is a real pig for making all photos uploaded useless as links in threads on forums :thumbsdown:

As well as fag packets, I'm a big fan of the pressure washer to demonstrate airflow in a similar manner to smoke in wind tunnels.
just-right wrote: Sun May 06, 2018 7:54 pmAll of the simulations feature a full car and also incorporates the underside. I need this to model the exit conditions of the front splitter accurately.
I look forward to seeing more of your work. :thumbsup:

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Post by markplant » Sun May 06, 2018 9:49 pm

I think the photobucket issue is you can see your own photos, because they are yours , if that makes any sense
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Post by exdos » Mon May 07, 2018 1:37 pm

I've just done a bit of searching to find a workaround to look at photos uploaded to Photobucket that do not display in threads and I've found one, which seems to work in any browser (on my Mac at least).

If you "Right Click" on the grey notice from Photobucket where an uploaded photo should be displayed in a thread, and then select "Open Link in New Tab", the selected image will then be displayed in that New Tab. It's far from an ideal solution, but at least you can look at the photos if you are interested enough in a particular thread which should be illustrated. :thumbsup:

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Just-Right's Splitter and Canard Development

Post by just-right » Wed May 09, 2018 8:49 pm

Finally, I managed to work a bit more on both the splitter and the canards. The aim was to make the canard more holistic with the splitter so I included a similar endplate detail and leading edge treatment. Aerodynamically, this helps to manage the vortex strength better whilst getting more local load. The canard sits a bit lower to help reduce the leading edge sensitivity due to spillage from the duct.
SPLITTER-V5-CANARD-V3-ISO.jpg
SPLITTER-V5-CANARD-V3-ISO.jpg (44.82 KiB) Viewed 1903 times
DETAIL.jpg
DETAIL.jpg (25.49 KiB) Viewed 1903 times
I have realigned the splitter endplate detail to be more flush with the hard edge of the bumper. The centre portion is longer which gives a direct load benefit. Below shown as coefficient of pressure with the blues being gradations of suction.
SPLITTER-V5-BOTTOM.jpg
SPLITTER-V5-BOTTOM.jpg (15.82 KiB) Viewed 1903 times
Cp-bottom-view_edit.jpg
Cp-bottom-view_edit.jpg (15.89 KiB) Viewed 1903 times
The new Canard is a little bit tidier by itself, utilising less energy from the flow and is maintaining a more coherent vortex structure for longer. Below is a plot of flow energy around the front tyre, red being high and anything below showcasing a loss in energy. On the non canard setup (left) the flow management around the tyre is slightly less than ideal and is cleaned up quite a bit with the canard (right)
CANARD-V3.jpg
CANARD-V3.jpg (14.46 KiB) Viewed 1903 times
The underbody splitter length is a very efficient way of adding downforce so a direction I will continue to follow. There are still some opportunities with the canard aerofoil sections to improve robustness. The journey continues, keep the comments coming!
Last edited by just-right on Wed May 09, 2018 9:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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