Vanos rebuild

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AndyBeech
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Vanos rebuild

Post by AndyBeech » Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:21 am

jamie_z4 wrote:
Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:10 am
AndyBeech wrote:
Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:08 am
jamie_z4 wrote:
Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:05 am

Ah yeah M54, but still cheap sure you'll agree!
No idea, don't know what's involved with that particular engine.
It's still gonna be the same principal, still an i6 engine with twin vanos....
To a degree maybe, but the units are quite different in design. But the thread is specifically about the S54 so it's kinda moot point in any case?
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GuidoK
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Vanos rebuild

Post by GuidoK » Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:42 am

The S54 and M54 vanos units are totally different in both design and functioning with each its own problems.
The s54 vanos is more complicated (more parts and more potential issues)
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Vanos rebuild

Post by AndyBeech » Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:47 am

markos wrote:
Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:15 am
I remember about 6 years back Mr Vanos was around £600, definitely not more. He was sorting out a friend's Z3M, I brought mine over and asked him to have a listen to mine, which he did and he thought it needed doing. To my ears – and my friend's – we couldn't hear what he was on about. 5 years and 20k+ miles later (and asking every M tech who ever serviced the car to listen for any VANOS noises – which they never heard) the car ran perfectly, no issues, no unusual noises or rattles apart from the usual S54 noises. Guess his ear was a lot sharper than everyone elses.
Ha yeah, fair one. I think I paid him about that nearly 10 years ago on my E36 M. He does have a rather unique market niche though. I deffo had an abnormal noise on my Z4 not the usual rattle, more a whirring sound. And not a single other specialist I'm aware of offers an exchange service on the unit (I spoke to many). It was basically spend X amount of money diagnosing a fault / replacing parts which could be many things (stupidly I did initially) and a refurb unit was the only thing that fixed it and runs quiet as a mouse now. Took ages to get to that point mind, he is a pain in the ass to get hold of, although I believe he does have personal circumstances which dictate that in fairness, let alone a 2 month odd waiting list for work.
It was a garage in Reading I went to eventually that Steve visits periodically to service his customers cars VANOS units and it was done in a week after that, got lucky I guess in that respect. But yeah I doubt many will have the issues with it I did, I just got unlucky!
GuidoK wrote:
Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:42 am
The S54 and M54 vanos units are totally different in both design and functioning with each its own problems.
The s54 vanos is more complicated (more parts and more potential issues)
Thanks Guidok, what I thought. On that, you're a knowledgeable chap, what's your thoughts on the VANOS and various repair methods? The topic still interests me after my trails and tribulations with it! Always wondered if on the German forums there would be any different points of view on it for example.
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Vanos rebuild

Post by GuidoK » Sat Jan 20, 2018 1:20 am

AndyBeech wrote:
Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:47 am
what's your thoughts on the VANOS and various repair methods?
Are you referring to the bolts that can shear off or the potential breaking of the oil disc locating pins?
Or that kit to reduce axial bearing play in the splined shaft bearing?
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Vanos rebuild

Post by AndyBeech » Sat Jan 20, 2018 1:54 am

GuidoK wrote:
Sat Jan 20, 2018 1:20 am
AndyBeech wrote:
Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:47 am
what's your thoughts on the VANOS and various repair methods?
Are you referring to the bolts that can shear off or the potential breaking of the oil disc locating pins?
Or that kit to reduce axial bearing play in the splined shaft bearing?
Well the whole Besian method of rebuilding. The seal (o-ring) kit seems fair, and obviously the new bolts are neccasary as BMW revised the design themselves.

But yeah the anti rattle kit, solenoid and valve block parts, I never did understand why you would replace the seals in the valve sealing plate when a new one of those from BMW is pounds anyway for example. Out of interest, do you know if BMW actually supply a new VANOS unit these days or if they just refurb units themselves...I was under the impression it was the latter?
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Vanos rebuild

Post by GuidoK » Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:31 am

AndyBeech wrote:
Sat Jan 20, 2018 1:54 am

But yeah the anti rattle kit,
I dont have hands on experience with the s54 vanos, but I doubt the anti rattle kit is necessary. If in that region (so the axial bearing that sits in the splined helix gear) develops more play than from factory, it can only come from wear from that bearing (in which case that bearing is scrap).
Its only useful to reduce rattle that was there from factory, so maybe only when upgrading cams that apply more force on the vanos than stock.
solenoid and valve block parts
I think if the solenoid pack functions, it functions.
, I never did understand why you would replace the seals in the valve sealing plate when a new one of those from BMW is pounds anyway for example. [/quote[
They replace the original bmw seals (made from NBR) with viton seals that are supposed to be more heat resistant and last longer.
But if you take a new valve seal plate you're also good for many years.
Any failure is easily spotted as it would leak to the outside. A new bmw seal plate is about £25.

[quote[
Out of interest, do you know if BMW actually supply a new VANOS unit these days or if they just refurb units themselves...I was under the impression it was the latter?
I dont know. I only know that a complete unit from bmw is 2k, so very expensive.

What I think is the most akward failure in the vanos unit is the hub with the oil pump disc locating tabs breaking off. I've seen tabs breaking off from people with cars that they never track and just drive relative calmly and people who are complete hooligans and not breaking them, so it seems that its not related to the useage of the engine. It just happens or not.
I think the altered hub from turbotoy is the best solution, but expensive (£700 or so). But they place a cnc'd ring on it with redesigned tabs, made out of a very exotic steel type that is very tough. (much stronger than the steel type that vac motorsports uses who have a similar engineered solution). I think if your hub is broken already (and you have to get a new one anyway) the turbotoy solution is hte way to go
I think the beisan altered pump disc may be only part of the solution.


The first thing that I noticed about the whole vanos and camshaft procedures is that I cant find a torque setting or loctite advice for the bolts that hold in the splined gearsleeve into the camshafts. (I think those are the bolts that risk shearing off?)
Has anybody noticed that or am I just looking in the wrong place in TIS?
The beisan guide says 12Nm and the use of a medium threadlocker. (I would clean those bolts and boltholes very meticulously with cotton swabs and acetone or so)
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Vanos rebuild

Post by Beedub » Sat Jan 20, 2018 10:16 am

the VAC hub is around 100 bucks cheaper.... than the turbo TOY unit, having read the specs for both and done alittle research into the materials i dont think the TT unit is worth the extra 100 bucks for the cobalt piece... i do however like his weight offsetting idea by removing excess material from the outer section, but this would be cheap and easy to replicate on the VAC unit. i really need to order one of these while my engine is so lack of miles, would be a really nice preventative item. my vanos is currently silent, but so it should be at 12k miles. I also really enjoy taking these type of items off myself and just having a go.

https://store.vacmotorsports.com/s54-va ... p3771.aspx

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Vanos rebuild

Post by GuidoK » Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:54 pm

The turbotoy unit uses an aircraft grade steel that is literally twice as strong as the steel used in the VAC unit.
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Vanos rebuild

Post by Beedub » Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:56 pm

GuidoK wrote:
Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:54 pm
The turbotoy unit uses an aircraft grade steel that is literally twice as strong as the steel used in the VAC unit.

and they have still broken occasionally...... TT will confirm some of these have still failed, which i found concerning

For me without a core replacement im looking at 750 bucks before i pay for the shipping etc, so the VAC unit is more attractive . i have emailed VAC for the metal strength figures for the billet they have used and will report back. If its higher than the stock figures quoted by TT website but double the thickness of the stock tabs i'm happy with that, either way it doesnt seem even the strongest solution is perfect.

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Vanos rebuild

Post by GuidoK » Sun Jan 21, 2018 2:24 am

Beedub wrote:
Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:56 pm
GuidoK wrote:
Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:54 pm
The turbotoy unit uses an aircraft grade steel that is literally twice as strong as the steel used in the VAC unit.

and they have still broken occasionally...... TT will confirm some of these have still failed, which i found concerning
I thought that had only happened with the earlier versions (V1, V2, made from 4130 and 4340)?
And not the latest ones made from maraging steel?
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Vanos rebuild

Post by Beedub » Sun Jan 21, 2018 11:32 am

GuidoK wrote:
Sun Jan 21, 2018 2:24 am
Beedub wrote:
Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:56 pm
GuidoK wrote:
Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:54 pm
The turbotoy unit uses an aircraft grade steel that is literally twice as strong as the steel used in the VAC unit.

and they have still broken occasionally...... TT will confirm some of these have still failed, which i found concerning
I thought that had only happened with the earlier versions (V1, V2, made from 4130 and 4340)?
And not the latest ones made from maraging steel?
i was suprised too!!!! but yeah!!! their have been breakages.......

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Vanos rebuild

Post by GuidoK » Sun Jan 21, 2018 5:51 pm

Beedub wrote:
Sun Jan 21, 2018 11:32 am
their have been breakages.......
Got a link?
I couldnt find any in the usual large expenrience threads on m3forum.net etc.

Even this clickbait type of thread on m3forum from mid last year revealed none:
[url]http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=579637[/url]
Like said in that link, that forum would be all over it if it would happen.

wtf is m3forum on this forums blacklist or so? why cant the url above not be displayed as a clickable link? Or is this forum broke?
anyway copy paste:
http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=579637
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