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Torque settings

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TomK
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Torque settings

Post by TomK » Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:14 pm

Maybe I've got it wrong but TIS suggests those values are correct for an m3?

TIS wrote:8AZ Front end reinforcement on front axle carrier/engine carrier
E46
Replace screws; first tighten down rear screws
Jointing torque 59 Nm
Torque angle 90+30 °
In any case your point is valid in that it is worth double checking that these values are not e46 specific in application.
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Torque settings

Post by GuidoK » Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:24 pm

TIS has procedures for both parts listed for the e46 m3:

TIS has entries for both the cross and the plate. This is from the official TIS program as BMW made it. (mine's in dutch but I'm sure the german or english one is the same)
Image

RA3111005 is for the cross, RA5171374 is for the plate

The cross is 59Nm plus 90 plus 30 deg, the plate is 59Nm plus 90.
I always use TIS because of inconsistencies like this.

TIS does sometimes list parts or procedures that are not present in the car you're working on, but the picture I placed clearly shows that there are in fact e46 m3's with the reinforcement plate (if there are any with the cross I dont know).
Using 59Nm plus 90 plus 30deg on the bolts on that plate would not be correct the way I interpret TIS. For the procedure with the plate, TIS states that torque settings 51 71 3AZ should be used (59Nm plus 90)
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TomK
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Torque settings

Post by TomK » Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:41 pm

GuidoK wrote: Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:24 pm
I always use TIS because of inconsistencies like this.
After this conversation I will endeavour to do so more sir! All to often I find myself too lazy to read through tis and just get some random torque settings off the internet, luckily I rarely attack too much near the chassis. :D
Not that the braking system and engine are any better places to start mis-torquing things :lol:
MC[IB], CSL airbox, Schrick 288/280 cams, 4.44FD, UUC SSK, SS race cat back, AP CP9660[F]/5144[R] brakes, Apex ARC-8 with AR-1 or PS5, KW ClubSport 2-way, Turner spherical arms, PMC uniball rtab, VB engine mounts, Rogue pulleys & RSMs, Tillett B6, half cage

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Torque settings

Post by GuidoK » Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:00 pm

I always have a laptop or tablet handy with tis. Just point and click and you have the exact repair notes there with all the torque settings, pictures, tools to use etc etc. I can't think of a better and faster tool to use.
Especially a tablet is handy. Tis was designed to be used that way. Thats why all the buttons are so large, its a touch screen interface.

Its one of the reasons why bmw's are nice cars to work on. The software is very good compared to a lot of other brands, easy to use and a lot of information.
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TomK
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Torque settings

Post by TomK » Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:13 pm

GuidoK wrote: Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:00 pmI always have a laptop or tablet handy with tis. Just point and click and you have the exact repair notes there with all the torque settings, pictures, tools to use etc etc. I can't think of a better and faster tool to use.
Indeed, I appreciate that, presently I have mine on a very old laptop that has little or no charge and needs to be plugged into the obd port in order for tis to work (and I have a crappy 30cm or so cable... cheapskate :headbang: ). I'm sure there's a better way round it than that and I really should junk the laptop (or get a new battery :) ).
Someone posted this link on here a month or so ago which I've found useful, an online tis 8)
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e86-z4-m-3.2-cou/
MC[IB], CSL airbox, Schrick 288/280 cams, 4.44FD, UUC SSK, SS race cat back, AP CP9660[F]/5144[R] brakes, Apex ARC-8 with AR-1 or PS5, KW ClubSport 2-way, Turner spherical arms, PMC uniball rtab, VB engine mounts, Rogue pulleys & RSMs, Tillett B6, half cage

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Torque settings

Post by GuidoK » Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:41 pm

^yes well there's something funny about that link.
Its a portation of the new TIS which is officially seated in ISTA-D now (also called Rheingold). I have that too.

If you select the e46 m3 > front axle > front axle suspension > Repair Instructions (REP) Removing and installing complete front axle (with spring strut shock absorber) you get to this page:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e46- ... on/OvEcM4n

It explains what to do prior to lower the axle, and one of the things is:
Remove reinforcement/reinforcement plate

Now if you click that, you are immediately directed to the repair/replacement of the cruciform style reinforcement.
(you can test that yourself in the link above)

BUT if you do that in ISTA-D, you get a popup screen, where you can select which one you have!!
Either the cruciform (first option) or the Reinforcement plate (option 2)

Let me show you:

Image

I've chosen an e46 m3 coupe and you see I'm in RA 31 10 000, and that popup brings up the choice.

The first option leads to RA 31 11 005 which describes the crusiform and its torque values and the second one leads to RA 51 71 374 (the reinforcement plate) with different values.

So for people who dont know this, this is a big risk.
And in case of that reinforcement plate, that is something that has to come off in a LOT of procedures (for virtually everything big done on the underside of the engine it has to come off as it blocks virtually all access)
I dont know if the reinforcement frame is the only thing this happens, but I think that where ever the TIS version out of ISTA-D displays that popup where you can choose something, that link just messes things up. Forgot (or didnt have the knowledge) that in certain procedures there is an extra step to come to the right repair procedure and corresponding data, possible leading to a failed or damaging repair.
As for that e46m3, I find a lot more pictures of undersides having that plate instead of that crusifix, so for the e46 m3 this is I guess a big thing.
...I wonder how many people in the world know this... maybe I'm the only one... :lol: :roll:
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Torque settings

Post by Truth » Sun Jan 14, 2018 11:35 am

I love cars and like to think I know a lot about them.

Anyone else ever think they know nothing about cars when they read Guidok’s technical posts? :lol:

Maybe a Marlon poll is needed
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Torque settings

Post by TomK » Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:10 pm

Truth wrote: Sun Jan 14, 2018 11:35 am I love cars and like to think I know a lot about them.

Anyone else ever think they know nothing about cars when they read Guidok’s technical posts? :lol:

Maybe a Marlon poll is needed
yes :sos:
No poll needed I think.
It's a pleasure to have some people on here who actually do know what they're talking about.
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Torque settings

Post by Truth » Sun Jan 14, 2018 11:10 pm

Agreed mate. And helpful when the s**t hits the fan.
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Torque settings

Post by Mangozac » Mon Jan 15, 2018 1:01 am

Truth wrote: Sun Jan 14, 2018 11:35 amI love cars and like to think I know a lot about them.

Anyone else ever think they know nothing about cars when they read Guidok’s technical posts? :lol:
8 years ago I'd had very little mechanical experience. Now I do all mechanical work on my Z4M and my mate's E36 M3 (we even changed the rod bearings a year ago). It's just a matter of constantly learning, acquiring tools, pushing your understanding and envelope of what you're comfortable doing, and lastly, installing the BMW technical software (previously TIS but now ISTA) and becoming familiar with it.

With the wealth of technical information available and the amount of knowledge shared on forums there's no reason to be intimidated ;)
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