Porsche 996 brake caliper upgrade

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bradz
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Porsche 996 brake caliper upgrade

Post by bradz » Thu May 07, 2020 3:55 pm

If you are going to use it properly on track then AP is the way.

I have AP's on my E46 & E92 M3 that are track cars, they will take as much punishment as you can give them.

On the Z4M I have M135i fronts and Porsche rears, They look superb and cost me less than £800 for all 4 in Phoenix yellow, with decent pads they are more than adequate for Road/Fast Road & Light track use.

If you start using the m135i kit on track you will find the ceramic top of the pistons will crack and the dust seals will melt... You can buy upgraded pistons and seals from Martin @ MS Motorsport but just spend the extra and get AP's!
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Porsche 996 brake caliper upgrade

Post by abar121 » Thu May 07, 2020 5:03 pm

Go for a properly engineered and evaluated kit with bigger brake disks, or don't bother. The extra leverage and mass you get from larger circumference brake disks, is a major benefit in braking performance.

A cobbled together kit with calipers that do not properly sweep the disks, could also have insurance implications. Brakes are a major factor in a lot of accidents and with a large claim, they will investigate every possible reason not to pay on a claim. Even if you declare the calipers, they will assume they meet all relevant standards and are road worthy.
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Porsche 996 brake caliper upgrade

Post by BMWZ4MC » Fri May 08, 2020 10:38 am

R60BBA wrote: Upgrade the front brakes to a BBK from the likes of AP or Alcon...
Alcon don’t make a kit for the Z4M and the E46 M3 front BBK doesn’t fit our cars.
mmm-five wrote: For at least a couple of track days, I'd try decent brake fluid & bleed, decent pads (Pagid RS29 or Performance Friction). If you're still getting fade after a couple of laps on those then you may need to change your braking technique and/or the calipers - as the single pot ones on the Z4M can only take so much.

I could happily do 20 minute sessions at Oulton Park on standard calipers with uprated fluid & pads (Yellowstuff/Bluestuff at the time as I got an excellent price from EBC for being a marshal...about £100 for a 4-wheel set) - or about 3 laps of the Ring (tyres & fuel were the limiting factor there).
I ran OEM brakes with solid bushings, updated fluid and pads and cooling ducts for a long time and they never let me down even with very heavy track use. However, the brakes lacked feel, especially when hot and just didn’t inspire much confidence. I swapped to APs front and rear immediately before shipping the car to Aus (so I never tested them in anger in the UK). My first track day here was at Eastern Creek in 35 degree heat. I spent the day chasing my mate in his C63S and the brakes behaved predictably and in an identical fashion from the first time I used them to the end of the day. I’d definitely take up Tom’s offer were I in your position...
As an aside, don’t under estimate the benefit of suspension modifications on improving braking. When I changed from Eibach springs with OEM dampers to KW Clubsports, my braking distances were markedly shorter on the same tracks. I have almost no pitch under braking so all four tyres are contributing to the deceleration effort (and I can carry more speed through the corners).
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Porsche 996 brake caliper upgrade

Post by maupineda » Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:58 pm

MrPT wrote:
Tue May 05, 2020 1:08 am
p
I have tried to figure out the actual loss if any, because even when the piston area is smaller, the pad is larger, without actual engineering studies (not internet excel sheets) is very difficult to accurately say what is, and what is not an upgrade.

I just installed the 6-pot Brembo and the feel is nicely improved, and have no way to tell if I have less brake power, I am still able to trigger ABS if I stomped the brakes just as before, yet, they are easier to modulate as the pedal is firmer the more you press it, whereas with the OE setup is always the same so your only feedback for modulation is travel.
Last edited by maupineda on Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Porsche 996 brake caliper upgrade

Post by MrPT » Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:43 pm

maupineda wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:58 pm
MrPT wrote:
Tue May 05, 2020 1:08 am
p
I have tried to figure out the actual loss if any, because even when the piston area is smaller, the pad is larger, without actual engineering studies (not internet excel sheets) is very difficult to accurately say what is, and what is not an upgrade.

I just installed the 6-pot Brembo and the feel is nicely improved, and have no way to tell if I have less brake power, I am still able to trigger ABS if I stomped the brakes just as before, yet, they are easier to modulate as the pedal is firmer the more you press it, whereas with the OE setup is always the same so your only feedback for modulation is travel.
Nice work. The advantage of a larger pad area is mainly heat dissipation and reduced wear rate. It doesn't compensate for smaller piston area in terms of clamping force on the disc.

It's worth spending a bit of time thinking about the calculations because messing with brake bias can be extremely dangerous.
2008 Z4MC: SG/Imola | sub-flimper spec | +OEM CSLs | +KWv3 | +TMS RTABLs | +VT mounts | +Eventuri | +OEM strut brace | +DB9 front BBK | +cruise - probably looks a bit like your one
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Porsche 996 brake caliper upgrade

Post by Babw » Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:39 am

Unless you're having a significantly rear brake biased setup (i.e you'll lock up the rears before your front) which I can't for the life of me think that is available on a BMW platform either as aftermarket or DIY, all you'll be doing is slightly changing the front bias.

Due to the weight over the front wheels and considerably larger discs on the front, even running 8 pots with carbon ceramics on the front will just cause ABS activation and front weight transfer rather than any undriveable characteristic. That's why so many manufacturers have made much bigger and and aggressive front only setups that you can happily run with stock rear setup with OEM pads.

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Porsche 996 brake caliper upgrade

Post by MrPT » Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:45 pm

I get that. I suppose I was just trying to suggest some caution, given the stated belief that a larger pad compensates for a smaller piston area.
2008 Z4MC: SG/Imola | sub-flimper spec | +OEM CSLs | +KWv3 | +TMS RTABLs | +VT mounts | +Eventuri | +OEM strut brace | +DB9 front BBK | +cruise - probably looks a bit like your one
2006 Z4 2.5si: gone

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Porsche 996 brake caliper upgrade

Post by Vanne » Tue Jun 30, 2020 5:47 pm

I am with Mpt, carefull what your messing with on a public road, if s**t hits the fan, and you cause injury, you'll be liable, esp if they go looking with a fine tooth combe.. do yourself a favour and either buy a proper bbk designed for the car in question,. Or just stick with the OEM stuff. (Which is absolutely awesome anyways in the z4m case , in my book,esp if paired with correct fluid and pads.)
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Porsche 996 brake caliper upgrade

Post by maupineda » Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:58 pm

Vanne wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 5:47 pm
I am with Mpt, carefull what your messing with on a public road, if s**t hits the fan, and you cause injury, you'll be liable, esp if they go looking with a fine tooth combe.. do yourself a favour and either buy a proper bbk designed for the car in question,. Or just stick with the OEM stuff. (Which is absolutely awesome anyways in the z4m case , in my book,esp if paired with correct fluid and pads.)
:thumbsup:
I disagree, the have very poor feel, they maybe powerful, but no awesome

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Porsche 996 brake caliper upgrade

Post by Wursle » Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:20 pm

AndyBeech wrote:
Mon May 04, 2020 9:13 pm
Has anyone got this setup front and rear and any comments on how much hassle it is to fit / complications etc. Would need to get brackets for the set I’m thinking of but seems like a good upgrade...hoping for some opinion before I drop the dollar! :thumbsup:
Stick to OEM discs and get some disgusting pads. once hot the race pads will be more than enough for 20-30 min sessions. by which point you'll probably be knackered haha

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Porsche 996 brake caliper upgrade

Post by crustyclown777 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:34 pm

Ever so slight thread hijack, but what are the preferred pad and Fluid combo based on all of your experience?
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Porsche 996 brake caliper upgrade

Post by Wursle » Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:49 pm

crustyclown777 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:34 pm
Ever so slight thread hijack, but what are the preferred pad and Fluid combo based on all of your experience?
RBF600 and RBF660 I tend to use. as for pads the HAWK DTC60 is a wicked pad and I highly recommend them all round (front and rear)

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Porsche 996 brake caliper upgrade

Post by philipw » Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:00 pm

Wursle wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:49 pm
crustyclown777 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:34 pm
Ever so slight thread hijack, but what are the preferred pad and Fluid combo based on all of your experience?
RBF600 and RBF660 I tend to use. as for pads the HAWK DTC60 is a wicked pad and I highly recommend them all round (front and rear)
I second this, I use RBF660 and Hawk DTC60 as well and have had no issues.
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Porsche 996 brake caliper upgrade

Post by BMWZ4MC » Wed Jul 01, 2020 11:36 am

I’ve used ATE Super Blue for years (now called Typ200 and no longer blue in colour). It’s cheaper than Motul RBF 600 or RBF 660 and performs better in my experience. The only time I’ve had the brake peddle hit the floor on a track day was with Motul RBF 660 (using OEM discs, EBC Bluestuff pads, solid brake bushings and brake cooling ducts). I changed back to ATE and had no further problems.
I always found the OEM set up (supplemented as listed) with ATE fluid provided consistently effective braking with heavy and frequent track use. However, pedal feel became increasingly inconsistent as the brakes became hotter. For that reason alone, I fitted an AP BBK front and rear (initially using EBC Bluestuff pads). The difference was night and day compared with OEM. Even in 35C heat, the brakes performed consistently with solid pedal feel long after I was a ragged, sweaty mess!
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