Manual 40i conversion?

Discussing the next generation Z4
craig3.2
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Manual 40i conversion?

Post by craig3.2 » Wed Apr 14, 2021 4:02 pm

BMWZ4MC wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 2:10 pm
Smartbear wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 1:07 pm
Pbondar wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 12:28 pm With boxes like the ZF8HP I'm at a loss to understand what this 'manual' issue is?

The only thing from a behaviourial view that distingusihes that box from a manual are:

1) No clutch pedal
2) No H pattern in manual mode (just up n down)

Can someone explain what the issue(s) are?
It’s purely personal opinion but the auto even in manual mode doesn’t mechanically change the gears when you move the stick, you’re just operating a microswitch which can feel a bit lacking. The manual gearshift actually moves the cogs and you can feel it - It’s this difference in mechanical involvement that separates the two :?
Rob

More than that, driving a manual car well is enormously rewarding. Pulling away rapidly from stationary without excessive wheel spin, clutch slip or bogging down; smooth, rapid upshifts under maximum acceleration, perfectly coordinating hand and foot whilst snicking across the gearbox; heel-and-toe downshifts using two feet on three pedals to enable rev-matching whilst braking hard into a corner, clipping the apex already in the correct gear and then accelerating smoothly back up through the gearbox. None of that is possible when pulling a paddle. Not to mention the fun of a hill start on a steep, slippery road.

Completely agree, Smartbear and bmwz4mc.....it's all about proper driving involvement.
Something that an auto or good automated manual,such as a VW) Audi or Porsche DSG Box just can't give you,as good as they are.

Some people just don't get it,but each to their own.
As said elsewhere,it's the same with Electric cars,great acceleration isn't everything,and they lack soul or a connection for me as well.

Unfortunately,it's the way it's going,but we can enjoy our Manual sports cars a while yet :driving: :D
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Manual 40i conversion?

Post by PaperSniper » Wed Apr 14, 2021 4:58 pm

BMWZ4MC wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 2:10 pm ... Not to mention the fun of a hill start on a steep, slippery road.
Indeed, that is a lost art! I used to ride with a motorcycle group in and around Memphis, TN. There was a particular hill near the river that I avoided when leading as most could not master foot down, gas on, clutch out without stalling! And stalling a heavy motorcycle is even more exciting than stalling a car on a steep hill! :o
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Manual 40i conversion?

Post by Pbondar » Wed Apr 14, 2021 5:55 pm

BMWZ4MC wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 2:10 pm
Smartbear wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 1:07 pm
Pbondar wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 12:28 pm With boxes like the ZF8HP I'm at a loss to understand what this 'manual' issue is?

The only thing from a behaviourial view that distingusihes that box from a manual are:

1) No clutch pedal
2) No H pattern in manual mode (just up n down)

Can someone explain what the issue(s) are?
It’s purely personal opinion but the auto even in manual mode doesn’t mechanically change the gears when you move the stick, you’re just operating a microswitch which can feel a bit lacking. The manual gearshift actually moves the cogs and you can feel it - It’s this difference in mechanical involvement that separates the two :?
Rob

More than that, driving a manual car well is enormously rewarding. Pulling away rapidly from stationary without excessive wheel spin, clutch slip or bogging down; smooth, rapid upshifts under maximum acceleration, perfectly coordinating hand and foot whilst snicking across the gearbox; heel-and-toe downshifts using two feet on three pedals to enable rev-matching whilst braking hard into a corner, clipping the apex already in the correct gear and then accelerating smoothly back up through the gearbox. None of that is possible when pulling a paddle. Not to mention the fun of a hill start on a steep, slippery road.
Thanks for the articulation of what the essences for you are :thumbsup:

I think after my first 28 cars I must have got bored with all of that :rofl:

Looks like the world market has voted that way largely..

Ironically I had to drive a Vectra Estate (manual) last week and the clutch and box were really sweet, so easy to drive.

Each to their own, my first BSA had a manual advance / retard ignition lever, a valve lifter, a tickler on the carb..they don't make them like they used to!
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Manual 40i conversion?

Post by GuidoK » Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:06 pm

Pbondar wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 12:28 pm The only thing from a behaviourial view that distingusihes that box from a manual are:

1) No clutch pedal
2) No H pattern in manual mode (just up n down)

Can someone explain what the issue(s) are?
one day autonomous driving will also be viewed from this perception.
The only thing that distingusihes it:

1) no steering wheel.

I mean.... what's the issue right? :evil: :roll:
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Manual 40i conversion?

Post by BMWZ4MC » Thu Apr 15, 2021 6:48 am

PaperSniper wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 4:58 pm
BMWZ4MC wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 2:10 pm ... Not to mention the fun of a hill start on a steep, slippery road.
Indeed, that is a lost art! I used to ride with a motorcycle group in and around Memphis, TN. There was a particular hill near the river that I avoided when leading as most could not master foot down, gas on, clutch out without stalling! And stalling a heavy motorcycle is even more exciting than stalling a car on a steep hill! :o
I can imagine! I did the opposite on a very light motorbike on a Malaysian island when I was 18. Determined not to get bogged in soft sand on a slope, I gave it way too much gas and was last seen disappearing into the rainforest on one wheel. It didn’t end well :rofl:
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Manual 40i conversion?

Post by buzyg » Thu Apr 15, 2021 2:51 pm

BMWZ4MC wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 6:48 am I can imagine! I did the opposite on a very light motorbike on a Malaysian island when I was 18. Determined not to get bogged in soft sand on a slope, I gave it way too much gas and was last seen disappearing into the rainforest on one wheel. It didn’t end well :rofl:
:worthless:

Happily I have been able to create a suitable interpretation in my head. :lol: :rofl: :thumbsup:
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Manual 40i conversion?

Post by ronk » Thu Apr 15, 2021 8:00 pm

One or two of my early cars had a cash gearboxes (No synchromesh) - if you want the "Thrill" of changing gear properly try one of those for size!
You either did it properly or not at all! :rofl:

When I hear the "you lot with autos don't know about changing gear" it makes me chuckle!
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Manual 40i conversion?

Post by Wyldie85 » Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:39 am

So there’s two modes that do help a little with driver involvement but I agree, its nothing like a manual would be. I think the M40i would be lovely as a manual.

So you knock the stick across and the display changes to ‘S’. This is still automatic mode but in a sportier setting. I’m not talking about drive modes here, Comfort, Sport, Sport+ etc, I mean just the gearbox. It then holds the gears for longer and changes down sooner. It’s not until you push the stick forward or backwards does the display change again to M, whereby its ‘manual’.

The box is very quick and with the sound and the way it gathers pace, it is quite involving. I really enjoy it. It can be two cars in one with these different modes and settings.
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Manual 40i conversion?

Post by tomscott » Fri Apr 16, 2021 8:16 am

There is a solution! Spend the money on a Z4M that ticks all the boxes?

The m40 is quick and has the 6cyl but lacks much of the essence of “classic” sports car it’s fealt to me like a 4 series with 2 seats really and the experience was missing. Tbh so did the e89 too and it’s not a compromise I liked really.

That being said in the modern era of a “sports car” outside of Porsche products I see the draw of the m40 and obviously it’s a new car not 14-16 years old. Honestly trying to find an M that’s not a dog these days isn’t easy, I thought I’d bought a decent one but still spent about 5k on it so far.

I could see the m40 being a good compromise for a daily but I would be hard pressed to buy one specifically for a weekend car. I do really quite like the m40 but I think these older cars do taint the experience but the m40 is far easier to live with.

Again the opposite for the Z4M I don’t like to use mine as a daily as it’s full of flaws too unless it’s a lovely day and worth going out with the roof down.

Just one of those what would you use it more for? Daily activities of weekend runs?

I think it’s a learning curve too with the transmissions I have a JCW with an auto and manual atm and the auto is a better car IMO my dad also has a 991 with the pdk and it’s just a fabulous car the auto makes it feel far quicker than it is. I did come away missing the manual tho but I do enjoy the autos too.
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Manual 40i conversion?

Post by enuff_zed » Fri Apr 16, 2021 8:21 am

Cut out a little pictures of Andrew Sachs and stick them on the paddles. At least then you'll have a Manuel gearchange. :thumbsup:
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Manual 40i conversion?

Post by BMWZ4MC » Fri Apr 16, 2021 8:44 am

enuff_zed wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 8:21 am Cut out a little pictures of Andrew Sachs and stick them on the paddles. At least then you'll have a Manuel gearchange. :thumbsup:
Better Manuel than Fawlty :D
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Manual 40i conversion?

Post by enuff_zed » Fri Apr 16, 2021 8:58 am

BMWZ4MC wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 8:44 am
enuff_zed wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 8:21 am Cut out a little pictures of Andrew Sachs and stick them on the paddles. At least then you'll have a Manuel gearchange. :thumbsup:
Better Manuel than Fawlty :D
:rofl: :thumbsup:
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Manual 40i conversion?

Post by PaperSniper » Fri Apr 16, 2021 1:31 pm

Wyldie85 wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:39 am So there’s two modes that do help a little with driver involvement but I agree, its nothing like a manual would be. I think the M40i would be lovely as a manual.

So you knock the stick across and the display changes to ‘S’. This is still automatic mode but in a sportier setting. I’m not talking about drive modes here, Comfort, Sport, Sport+ etc, I mean just the gearbox. It then holds the gears for longer and changes down sooner. It’s not until you push the stick forward or backwards does the display change again to M, whereby its ‘manual’.

The box is very quick and with the sound and the way it gathers pace, it is quite involving. I really enjoy it. It can be two cars in one with these different modes and settings.
Maybe I've been doing it wrong...I slap the console shifter to the left, which I think puts it in Sport but doesn't manually change gears. Then I push the little rocker switch to Sport on the console. Doing that, I control when to shift; at least most shifts. I think it would downshift itself down to first gear if I stopped the car and didn't tap the left paddle; but I have been doing all "my own" shifting under this situation with the paddles so I don't know. I go through that procedure of "Sport -Sport" only when driving on an "exhilarating" road; although I always push the rocker switch to Sport, which basically simply holds the it-shift points to a higher RPM.
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Manual 40i conversion?

Post by Nictrix » Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:31 pm

PaperSniper wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 1:31 pm
Wyldie85 wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:39 am So there’s two modes that do help a little with driver involvement but I agree, its nothing like a manual would be. I think the M40i would be lovely as a manual.

So you knock the stick across and the display changes to ‘S’. This is still automatic mode but in a sportier setting. I’m not talking about drive modes here, Comfort, Sport, Sport+ etc, I mean just the gearbox. It then holds the gears for longer and changes down sooner. It’s not until you push the stick forward or backwards does the display change again to M, whereby its ‘manual’.

The box is very quick and with the sound and the way it gathers pace, it is quite involving. I really enjoy it. It can be two cars in one with these different modes and settings.
Maybe I've been doing it wrong...I slap the console shifter to the left, which I think puts it in Sport but doesn't manually change gears. Then I push the little rocker switch to Sport on the console. Doing that, I control when to shift; at least most shifts. I think it would downshift itself down to first gear if I stopped the car and didn't tap the left paddle; but I have been doing all "my own" shifting under this situation with the paddles so I don't know. I go through that procedure of "Sport -Sport" only when driving on an "exhilarating" road; although I always push the rocker switch to Sport, which basically simply holds the it-shift points to a higher RPM.
If its anything like my X6 gearbox which I think it is there are multiple ways of using it.
Forgetting the sport/comfort buttons as they only adjust throttle settings the gearbox can be driven fully automatic in the normal position that you can also change gears yourself by forward/backward use of the gearstick or the paddles. The gearbox will revert back to auto after a few seconds if you do this.
Click the stick to the left into sports mode and it lets you rev the engine higher in every gear before changing automatically. The difference now is if you use the gearstick or the paddles to change gear at all it DOESNT revert back to auto.
One other thing about the gearstick pushed left into sports is you cannot select reverse in this mode.
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Manual 40i conversion?

Post by PaperSniper » Fri Apr 16, 2021 3:54 pm

Nictrix wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:31 pm ....Click the stick to the left into sports mode and it lets you rev the engine higher in every gear before changing automatically. The difference now is if you use the gearstick or the paddles to change gear at all it DOESNT revert back to auto.
One other thing about the gearstick pushed left into sports is you cannot select reverse in this mode.
Yes, that is how it works in my experience. Thanks for confirming it.
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