G29 Market watch

[john-e89]

That article makes sense in many ways, especially when it says BMW probably knew the new Z4 wasn’t going to do it any favours which to me is emphasised in the car as a whole. I still cannot understand where there is 55k in a loaded M40i, look past the fancy screens and it’s as cheap as chips, build quality is ‘meh’, an engine with no more to it than the 35is’s, a mediocre HK gramophone, dull steering, heavy big car, the list goes on, they’re asking top dollar for middle of the road at best product. They edged their bets, if it takes off, bonus, if not, as expected, the ones we do sell should at least cover the R&D costs with a few quid for lunch.

No offence to owners, just imo obviously. Not that you care a rats ass what I say anyway....and why should you.....

[buzyg]

The thing is BMW make niche products for niche owners but they don't appeal to niche owners because they are all average to drive.

I completely agree and was my argument with the E89 too. Why would you buy a 2 seater sports car where you compromise on practicality when it drives about the same as a 3 series... The Z4M is a good example its a niche car but its a great car to drive... the new gen cars all drive the same there is no real difference in experience.

I suppose you buy it for looks... I have to be honest im not a hater of the new design but its not exactly a masterpiece either. I suppose putting my money where my mouth is, again I dont think £54k for what you get is expensive compared to the 718, but I still wouldn't buy it.

The M2 is the only car in the line that remotely appeals because it feels like a modern E46 otherwise I feel the range just blends into the rest of the cars on the road. Product of their own success.

Without an M variant there is no heritage or aspiration either.

The fact the legendary M3 coupe is now called the M4 and the M3 is now a saloon is a perfect example of disastrous marketing.

Its the same across the range. SUVs X1/2/3/4/5/6/7 are they all really necessary!? They need to cull the range and go back to basics making a more limited but excellent range. I feel like BMW are similar to Apple... going through a period where it could easily see the end of the golden era.

Although its a bit more complicated as we are heading into the electric age and BMWs additions have been a big swing and miss.

Well put Tom nothing in there I can disagree with.

[sars]

That article makes sense in many ways, especially when it says BMW probably knew the new Z4 wasn’t going to do it any favours which to me is emphasised in the car as a whole. I still cannot understand where there is 55k in a loaded M40i, look past the fancy screens and it’s as cheap as chips, build quality is ‘meh’, an engine with no more to it than the 35is’s, a mediocre HK gramophone, dull steering, heavy big car, the list goes on, they’re asking top dollar for middle of the road at best product. They edged their bets, if it takes off, bonus, if not, as expected, the ones we do sell should at least cover the R&D costs with a few quid for lunch.

No offence to owners, just imo obviously. Not that you care a rats ass what I say anyway....and why should you.....

That’s a bit harsh

I went to look at a used one in Sapphire/Ivory at Williams BMW in Manchester, £39.5k with 3000 miles on it, was a little tempted but the thought of buying an ex demonstrator was a sanity reminder.

[john-e89]

That article makes sense in many ways, especially when it says BMW probably knew the new Z4 wasn’t going to do it any favours which to me is emphasised in the car as a whole. I still cannot understand where there is 55k in a loaded M40i, look past the fancy screens and it’s as cheap as chips, build quality is ‘meh’, an engine with no more to it than the 35is’s, a mediocre HK gramophone, dull steering, heavy big car, the list goes on, they’re asking top dollar for middle of the road at best product. They edged their bets, if it takes off, bonus, if not, as expected, the ones we do sell should at least cover the R&D costs with a few quid for lunch.

No offence to owners, just imo obviously. Not that you care a rats ass what I say anyway....and why should you.....

That’s a bit harsh

I went to look at a used one in Sapphire/Ivory at Williams BMW in Manchester, £39.5k with 3000 miles on it, was a little tempted but the thought of buying an ex demonstrator was a sanity reminder.

I’d have a 2nd hand one as a daily and for pumping up and down the motorway as it has adaptive cruise, plus a 2nd hander I’d be more inclined to swap out the speakers etc, but as a fun sports car...

[tomscott]

Agree with the majority but I dont agree with the HK comments I think its excellent. Especially for a small cabin. I played with the settings made it like I have in the mini and thought it was great.

Not quite as good as the Burmester in the 991 but that is many Ks more, infact double the price of the tech pack on the Z4. Got the same system in my mini and its probably the best system ive had in a vehicle, its a bigger cabin and has more speakers but think its really excelent. Again have had many years with the bose in the 996/997 always had to dial these back they are so boomy, HK in the E46, Logic in the E92, burmester in the 991.

The build quality I also thought was standard BMW... what I would expect.

At the end of the day 50k is mid range price for BMW. The new 330i which is a 4 pot is 50k with most of the boxes ticked, not even top of the range assuming there will be a M340 or the likes which will add even more say 5-6k?

How much was the Box GTS? Starts at 63k, get rid of the alcantara and add some nice wheels... easy to spend 10k on features that come with most cars these days. Thats another 15-20k... over the Z4 easy. Go to town your talking a completely different ball park, the Z4 doesn't compete in that space. The Porsche spec list is silly but at the end of the day its 70% more expensive... with the spec sheet ticked. In all honesty with that sort of money it opens up a whole other door to exotica.

Granted the G29 is no M but its a better car than the E89 and really its almost the same recipe. 2 seats same engines as 3 series and drives like one too. Like I said niche car that doesnt fill the niche of the enthusiast... but its not an M car and I dont know why people expect it to be. Depends where you are, glass half full or glass half empty.

Many people just want a new car, pay monthly and be done with it. How many people outside forums have weekend only cars now? Most people have cars that do everything and in this respect the Z4 might be quite an appealing package.

I think the original price of my M and it was 43k that was slated as expensive too... in todays money it would be 62k... works across the board. All new cars are expensive.

The enthusiast market is getting more and more niche... sportscar sales are super low. Porsche still sell many times more SUVs than they do sportscars and that is their bread and butter, if it wasnt for the Cayenne porsche might not be what it is today.

Diversity aids success but BMW have taken that to a whole new level unfortunately the Z4 is a victim to it.

[john-e89]

We'll have to disagree on the HK gramophone Tom I think it’s poor, lacking in depth, but I guess it s ok for the outlay. BMW have cheaped out on the new car imo, seat switches for example are old ones, and nothing better than is on a base model 1 series, window switches, the same, just a couple of examples but all these things add up to a parts bin raid car rather than a bespoke effort. Burmester is so much better than the Bose which a agree is far too boomy, lots of power with sub standard speakers...excuse the sub pun.... .

The boxy has a bespoke GTS pack, and to get rid of the Alcantara has a very real impact on future values as most people who want a GTS want the pack, according to the sales guys. The only reason to rid the pack is to add cooled seats, you can’t spec them on Alcantara, but as I prefer cloth over leather that was fine with me.

The base 718 starts at 47k, add a few juicy options and you’re at the M40i price, I know which I’d rather have.... I didn’t buy a GTS because it was top of the tree, it was because the options I wanted meant that a specced up base car was the price of a set of carbon ceramics off the GTS, so I ditched the ceramics and paid just 1.5k more for a fully loaded GTS. This car will lose significantly less than a loaded base car so it was a no brainer.

BMW don’t offer cooled seats, Burmester, 18 way adjustable seats, air scarf, for example, which is madness, why not..? You don’t have to pick them but to have the choice would be ideal, I don’t get why they don’t offer them and was another reason why I didn’t buy one.

[tomscott]

BMW play that game, if you want the luxuries you have to go up to an 8... rather than let you spec the car the way you want.

Instead you have to buy an absolute barge.

One of the reasons I love hate the M2 it’s a great car let down buy it’s interior definitely doesn’t feel 55-60k in there. Neither does if feel like an M car, the M treatment used to mean nappa etc it’s crazy it’s not an option.

[Z4M-2006]

I drove an M2 for the first time the other week,quick but disappointing.

So low rent that i couldnt contemplate putting £35k into one.

I drove an M4 a few days after,i quite liked it actually and if i could have come to a deal with the dealers selling it i would probably have bought it.

[john-e89]

Agree with the majority but I dont agree with the HK comments I think its excellent. Especially for a small cabin. I played with the settings made it like I have in the mini and thought it was great.

Not quite as good as the Burmester in the 991 but that is many Ks more, infact double the price of the tech pack on the Z4. Got the same system in my mini and its probably the best system ive had in a vehicle, its a bigger cabin and has more speakers but think its really excelent. Again have had many years with the bose in the 996/997 always had to dial these back they are so boomy, HK in the E46, Logic in the E92, burmester in the 991.

The build quality I also thought was standard BMW... what I would expect.

At the end of the day 50k is mid range price for BMW. The new 330i which is a 4 pot is 50k with most of the boxes ticked, not even top of the range assuming there will be a M340 or the likes which will add even more say 5-6k?

How much was the Box GTS? Starts at 63k, get rid of the alcantara and add some nice wheels... easy to spend 10k on features that come with most cars these days. Thats another 15-20k... over the Z4 easy. Go to town your talking a completely different ball park, the Z4 doesn't compete in that space. The Porsche spec list is silly but at the end of the day its 70% more expensive... with the spec sheet ticked. In all honesty with that sort of money it opens up a whole other door to exotica.

Granted the G29 is no M but its a better car than the E89 and really its almost the same recipe. 2 seats same engines as 3 series and drives like one too. Like I said niche car that doesnt fill the niche of the enthusiast... but its not an M car and I dont know why people expect it to be. Depends where you are, glass half full or glass half empty.

Many people just want a new car, pay monthly and be done with it. How many people outside forums have weekend only cars now? Most people have cars that do everything and in this respect the Z4 might be quite an appealing package.

I think the original price of my M and it was 43k that was slated as expensive too... in todays money it would be 62k... works across the board. All new cars are expensive.

The enthusiast market is getting more and more niche... sportscar sales are super low. Porsche still sell many times more SUVs than they do sportscars and that is their bread and butter, if it wasnt for the Cayenne porsche might not be what it is today.

Diversity aids success but BMW have taken that to a whole new level unfortunately the Z4 is a victim to it.

How do you spend 10k easily on ‘features’ that come with most cars these days? What features are these that the GTS doesn’t have that, say, an M40i does have? Get rid of the Alcantara and add some nice wheels....???? What’s wrong with the standard 20” matte black GTS wheels..? Getting rid of the Alcantara is only going to lose you even more money, the Alcantara is integral to the GTS as a pack which is what most people want in a GTS. Why is the option sheet silly? You don’t have to add anything, the base GTS is a very well specced car, but at least the choice is there if you do want to add options, something that BMW don’t even offer.

Tom I don’t want a bun fight but it seems you’ve taken an opinion on the GTS without knowing the facts. The GTS is a niche car, it has a pack, take it or leave it. Of course you can spec one how you want, but going off course will lose you more money, a lot more money than sticking with how the car was intended.

[dr_john]

How do you spend 10k easily on ‘features’ that come with most cars these days? What features are these that the GTS doesn’t have that, say, an M40i does have? Get rid of the Alcantara and add some nice wheels....???? What’s wrong with the standard 20” matte black GTS wheels..? Getting rid of the Alcantara is only going to lose you even more money, the Alcantara is integral to the GTS as a pack which is what most people want in a GTS. Why is the option sheet silly? You don’t have to add anything, the base GTS is a very well specced car, but at least the choice is there if you do want to add options, something that BMW don’t even offer.

Tom I don’t want a bun fight but it seems you’ve taken an opinion on the GTS without knowing the facts. The GTS is a niche car, it has a pack, take it or leave it. Of course you can spec one how you want, but going off course will lose you more money, a lot more money than sticking with how the car was intended.

I just ran through the Porsche configurator and I reckon that adding the various options that a G29 has (as standard) to a Boxster GTS would add around £7k to the £64k base price.

These options include PDK, LED lights, cruise control, parking sensors, etc etc. I didn't include anything that the G29 lists as an optional extra, but if you wanted an uprated sound system, metallic paint etc I can see the £10k figure being easily acheived.

[john-e89]

How do you spend 10k easily on ‘features’ that come with most cars these days? What features are these that the GTS doesn’t have that, say, an M40i does have? Get rid of the Alcantara and add some nice wheels....???? What’s wrong with the standard 20” matte black GTS wheels..? Getting rid of the Alcantara is only going to lose you even more money, the Alcantara is integral to the GTS as a pack which is what most people want in a GTS. Why is the option sheet silly? You don’t have to add anything, the base GTS is a very well specced car, but at least the choice is there if you do want to add options, something that BMW don’t even offer.

Tom I don’t want a bun fight but it seems you’ve taken an opinion on the GTS without knowing the facts. The GTS is a niche car, it has a pack, take it or leave it. Of course you can spec one how you want, but going off course will lose you more money, a lot more money than sticking with how the car was intended.

I just ran through the Porsche configurator and I reckon that adding the various options that a G29 has (as standard) to a Boxster GTS would add around £7k to the £64k base price.

These options include PDK, LED lights, cruise control, parking sensors, etc etc. I didn't include anything that the G29 lists as an optional extra, but if you wanted an uprated sound system, metallic paint etc I can see the £10k figure being easily acheived.

I was commenting on Tom saying get rid of the GTS wheels and Alcantara pack then add on replacements for these Doc, maybe I’ve read it wrong, but that’s what I meaning.

[dr_john]

Oh OK, maybe! Getting a bit involved isn't it

I guess I was really just interested in a straight like for like comparison

[MrPT]

I wonder how much it would take to make an “open top Supra” from a used G29 plus some aftermarket bits? If you go by reviews, that would in theory be a car with no glaring weaknesses (apart from the looks, maybe, but that’s subjective).

Toyota OEM or aftermarket suspension
Supra geo
Supra steering rack/calibration
Under-tyre and/or re-map
???

The Z4M is an incredible used buy and a large part of that is down to the community figuring out a few mods that unlock its true potential.

[sunnydays]

The E89 set the bar too high, the 35is a modern masterpiece. The G29 was always going to struggle against such tough competition.

[john-e89]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Masterpiece......kay..........