Paris Motor Show

Discussing the next generation Z4
djstan
Member
Member
Posts: 338
Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2014 1:31 pm
Location: Bristol

Paris Motor Show

Post by djstan » Thu May 24, 2018 12:43 pm

I've been reading that the new Z4 may be making its public debut at the Paris Motor Show in October - anybody thinking of going?

We might drive over and use it as an excuse for a weekend in Paris :) :thumbsup:
10-plate E89 35i, Deep Sea Blue, complete with stubby aerial :)

User avatar
Nictrix
Lifer
Lifer
Posts: 3028
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2014 9:59 pm
Location: Paisley

Paris Motor Show

Post by Nictrix » Thu May 24, 2018 1:00 pm

It makes you wonder when it is actually going to be available to buy.
It also makes you wonder why they stopped production of the E89 when its now going to be well over 2 years till the replacement is on the road.
Im sure they could still have sold many E89s in this time.
E89 2010 23i M Sport Black with Black leather

User avatar
Marlon
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 10005
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2015 11:13 am
Location: Lancs.
Contact:

Paris Motor Show

Post by Marlon » Thu May 24, 2018 1:50 pm

Didn't realise there's two years wait before the E89 replacement? No wonder we haven't seen the actual production version yet
3.0si 2008 | Quantum Remap | M Sports Seats | Cruise Control | M wheel
style 224 alloys | DLV back box | CDV delete | Stainless steel B06 gear knob

User avatar
Nictrix
Lifer
Lifer
Posts: 3028
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2014 9:59 pm
Location: Paisley

Paris Motor Show

Post by Nictrix » Thu May 24, 2018 3:09 pm

Marlon wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 1:50 pm
Didn't realise there's two years wait before the E89 replacement? No wonder we haven't seen the actual production version yet
What I mean is that production stopped for the E89 in August 2016 (I think) and now it may be past October 2018 before it is unveiled.
E89 2010 23i M Sport Black with Black leather

User avatar
Marlon
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 10005
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2015 11:13 am
Location: Lancs.
Contact:

Paris Motor Show

Post by Marlon » Thu May 24, 2018 3:20 pm

Nictrix wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 3:09 pm
Marlon wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 1:50 pm
Didn't realise there's two years wait before the E89 replacement? No wonder we haven't seen the actual production version yet
What I mean is that production stopped for the E89 in August 2016 (I think) and now it may be past October 2018 before it is unveiled.
Understood - its about time we saw the final production version
3.0si 2008 | Quantum Remap | M Sports Seats | Cruise Control | M wheel
style 224 alloys | DLV back box | CDV delete | Stainless steel B06 gear knob

djstan
Member
Member
Posts: 338
Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2014 1:31 pm
Location: Bristol

Paris Motor Show

Post by djstan » Thu May 24, 2018 3:33 pm

So then.... anybody going to the Paris Motor Show?! :rofl:
10-plate E89 35i, Deep Sea Blue, complete with stubby aerial :)

User avatar
buzyg
Lifer
Lifer
Posts: 12680
Joined: Fri May 20, 2011 6:11 pm
Location: Cornwall

Paris Motor Show

Post by buzyg » Thu May 24, 2018 5:30 pm

djstan wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 3:33 pm
So then.... anybody going to the Paris Motor Show?! :rofl:
Nope.
Image

Mr Tidy
Lifer
Lifer
Posts: 7188
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2014 12:18 pm
Location: Berkshire

Paris Motor Show

Post by Mr Tidy » Thu May 24, 2018 9:52 pm

I boycotted the Motor Show when they moved it to the middle of nowhere in the Midlands - I certainly wouldn't go to Paris for it! :lol:
Z4 3.0Si Sport - Coupe for added stiffness!
Current - Montego Blue, Pearl Grey, Cirrus trim & 295s. Cruise, Storage and pdc. E91 325i as a DD.
Gone - Ruby Black, Pearl Grey & 135Ms. Xenons, heated seats and Professional speakers.

User avatar
skelters
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 1403
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2007 11:18 pm
Location: Greenock, Scotland

Paris Motor Show

Post by skelters » Fri May 25, 2018 8:09 pm

Nictrix wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 1:00 pm
It makes you wonder when it is actually going to be available to buy.
It also makes you wonder why they stopped production of the E89 when its now going to be well over 2 years till the replacement is on the road.
Im sure they could still have sold many E89s in this time.
Sales numbers and end of the 7 year production run. Looks like it couldn't compete with the SLK or Boxster.

Obviously different cars, different time and different appeal for each of them but roughly in 7 year production runs....
E89 sold 115,000
E85 sold 180,856
Boxster 986 160,578
Mercedes SLK 2009 - 2016 127,464

Maybe if it had a greater appeal it would have lasted longer.

The comments on here pretty much nail it. https://jalopnik.com/bmw-just-quietly-s ... 1785884537
2007 Z4 3.0si Sport. Silver Grey Metallic, Brembo Brakes, HEL Braided Brake Hoses, Machine Monkey Exhaust Tips, Stubby, Piano Black trim, Black Leather, Michelin Pilot Sport 4 on MV2's

User avatar
Nictrix
Lifer
Lifer
Posts: 3028
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2014 9:59 pm
Location: Paisley

Paris Motor Show

Post by Nictrix » Fri May 25, 2018 8:44 pm

skelters wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 8:09 pm
Nictrix wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 1:00 pm
It makes you wonder when it is actually going to be available to buy.
It also makes you wonder why they stopped production of the E89 when its now going to be well over 2 years till the replacement is on the road.
Im sure they could still have sold many E89s in this time.
Sales numbers and end of the 7 year production run. Looks like it couldn't compete with the SLK or Boxster.

Obviously different cars, different time and different appeal for each of them but roughly in 7 year production runs....
E89 sold 115,000
E85 sold 180,856
Boxster 986 160,578
Mercedes SLK 2009 - 2016 127,464

Maybe if it had a greater appeal it would have lasted longer.

The comments on here pretty much nail it. https://jalopnik.com/bmw-just-quietly-s ... 1785884537
I understand that they sold less than some competitors but to me it didnt make sense to stop production of something that would sell when there is no immediate replacement. Not that far behind Merc and they havnt stopped production.
I also understand that you dislike them and are quite glad that they stopped making them.
What would be an estimate on how many they could have sold in the last 2 years if they didnt end production?
10,000 each year?
5,000?
It just seems odd to basically turn away business that they could have had. Anybody looking for a 2 seater "sports" car would obviously have to go to their competitors to get what they wanted instead. I wonder how many people were actually turned away from BMW when they were told they were no longer available.
Personally I would have liked to have seen production continue for as long as possible and may have traded ours for a newer model when the time came but with so few newer cars available and the new Z4 being a soft top I doubt if our next car will be a BMW.
Who knows, the new z4 could be a complete flop and sell even less than any of the above.
E89 2010 23i M Sport Black with Black leather

User avatar
NickDE
Member
Member
Posts: 816
Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2016 12:21 pm
Location: Newcastle upon Tyne

Paris Motor Show

Post by NickDE » Fri May 25, 2018 10:04 pm

They probably needed the production line capacity for a more profitable model
Darkness gone, go Darknes2, go Frozen, go Tronic

User avatar
Dave1971
Member
Member
Posts: 701
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2012 7:20 pm

Paris Motor Show

Post by Dave1971 » Sat May 26, 2018 7:03 am

NickDE wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 10:04 pm
They probably needed the production line capacity for a more profitable model
This 100%, just look at how many niche models BMW make these days. Why take up a production line making 10,000 z4’s when you can use it to make 20,000 x4’s.
Gone but not forgotten 2004 Z4 2.2 se.
Sold (sadly) 2007 Imola Red Z4MR.
Gone to a new home 2006 Ruby Black 3.0si Roadster.
Now 2009 35i sDrive

User avatar
skelters
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 1403
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2007 11:18 pm
Location: Greenock, Scotland

Paris Motor Show

Post by skelters » Sat May 26, 2018 11:25 pm

Nictrix wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 8:44 pm
skelters wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 8:09 pm
Nictrix wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 1:00 pm
It makes you wonder when it is actually going to be available to buy.
It also makes you wonder why they stopped production of the E89 when its now going to be well over 2 years till the replacement is on the road.
Im sure they could still have sold many E89s in this time.
Sales numbers and end of the 7 year production run. Looks like it couldn't compete with the SLK or Boxster.

Obviously different cars, different time and different appeal for each of them but roughly in 7 year production runs....
E89 sold 115,000
E85 sold 180,856
Boxster 986 160,578
Mercedes SLK 2009 - 2016 127,464

Maybe if it had a greater appeal it would have lasted longer.

The comments on here pretty much nail it. https://jalopnik.com/bmw-just-quietly-s ... 1785884537
I understand that they sold less than some competitors but to me it didnt make sense to stop production of something that would sell when there is no immediate replacement. Not that far behind Merc and they havnt stopped production.
I also understand that you dislike them and are quite glad that they stopped making them.
What would be an estimate on how many they could have sold in the last 2 years if they didnt end production?
10,000 each year?
5,000?
It just seems odd to basically turn away business that they could have had. Anybody looking for a 2 seater "sports" car would obviously have to go to their competitors to get what they wanted instead. I wonder how many people were actually turned away from BMW when they were told they were no longer available.
Personally I would have liked to have seen production continue for as long as possible and may have traded ours for a newer model when the time came but with so few newer cars available and the new Z4 being a soft top I doubt if our next car will be a BMW.
Who knows, the new z4 could be a complete flop and sell even less than any of the above.


Some people like them, I don't. Never have since it was revealed and remember it being a disappointment at the time. It's never grown on me and don't give them a 2nd glance when passing them. Would never consider buying one.

Same sort of situation that the E85 had in that it's marmite or not. Loved the E85 since it came out and remember passing the first one I'd seen on the road. Turned around and stopped behind it and got out to have a look.

As others have said it's all down to money and profit.

Based on the European sales figures (http://carsalesbase.com/european-car-sa ... mw/bmw-z4/) it's easy to see why the E89 was never going to continue (even though it was only ever going to be 7 years) to be produced as it had already reached peak sales by 2013 by the looks of it.

Surprisingly the E89 never got above 4000 sales per year in the USA. There's the nail in the coffin for the E89 right there! Perhaps that had something to do with it not being manufactured there although we'll never know!

With 3006 sold in Europe in 2016 I would think it must have been making a loss even if the production did use some of the 3 Series tooling and parts, manufacturing technique or whatever it shares with the 3 Series.

Obviously with the E85 figures there's the E86 to take into account as that would generate further demand for basically the same car with the unmovable hard top. We'd also need to look at worldwide sales to get a better idea of how popular or not the E89 was or not. Not as popular as the E85 going by the sales figures but there's obviously too many different things to factor in and we could never really compare them like for like.

All figures are taken from BMW Group Quarterly Reports at www.bmwgroup.com Image
From here.... http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/showth ... p?t=960354

European Sales Figures
BMW Z4
2017 244
2016 3.006
2015 4.093
2014 5.373
2013 5.970
2012 7.508
2011 9.417
2010 13.153
2009 13.497
2008 6.116
2007 15.281
2006 15.844
2005 14.137
2004 18.452
2003 22.973

US Sales Figures
BMW Z4
2017 502
2016 1.187
2015 1.829
2014 2.151
2013 2.480
2012 2.751
2011 3.479
2010 3.804
2009 3.523
2008 5.879
2007 10.097
2006 12.284
2005 10.045
2004 13.654
2003 20.169

Going back in time to the Z3....

2004 112
2003 1.054
2002 10.362
2001 16.298
2000 17.786
1999 24.263
1998 27.776
1997 30.954

240,493 sold in Europe alone! I did not know that!

With the G29 it'll probably attract quite a few E89 owners and maybe even some E85 / E86 owners. Personally I don't think BMW have produced anything worth considering since the 135i coupe but that's just be my opinion.

The G29 will gain popularity as it'll be the only two seater from BMW but will it be a good car? Will it be more of a Grand Tourer?

Will it compete with Mercedes and Porsche as they intend?... Doubt it!

What would you go for if you were replacing the E89? Boxster? Cayman? SLK? Something else?
2007 Z4 3.0si Sport. Silver Grey Metallic, Brembo Brakes, HEL Braided Brake Hoses, Machine Monkey Exhaust Tips, Stubby, Piano Black trim, Black Leather, Michelin Pilot Sport 4 on MV2's

User avatar
Nictrix
Lifer
Lifer
Posts: 3028
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2014 9:59 pm
Location: Paisley

Paris Motor Show

Post by Nictrix » Sun May 27, 2018 12:21 am

skelters wrote:
Sat May 26, 2018 11:25 pm
What would you go for if you were replacing the E89? Boxster? Cayman? SLK? Something else?
Not sure.
Definately not a Porsche, possibly an F-type once prices have dropped a bit further although not overly keen on the canvas roof.
Another couple of months and we have had the E89 for 5 years and its been fantastic with only the handbrake needing a software update that spoiled what would have been a trouble free 5 years.
Talking about sales and how production stops as they were not selling many, as far as I can see BMW i8s have sold less than 6000 in Europe in the last 5 years and less than 5000 in the US. The i3s are less than 60,000 in Europe and 30,000 in the US.
The Z4 sold almost 3 times as many as the i8 in Europe during the same time period and almost double in the US.
Neither of these sales for the i8 or the i3 seem to be on the way up so I wonder if those will get dropped too.
E89 2010 23i M Sport Black with Black leather

User avatar
skelters
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 1403
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2007 11:18 pm
Location: Greenock, Scotland

Paris Motor Show

Post by skelters » Sun May 27, 2018 2:18 am

Would think the i3 and i8 are more of an experiment and a foot into the hybrid market as it'll all be electric in 20 years time since dinosaur fuelled vehicles will be illegal in Europe!

It will be back to horse and cart here though (current UK) and everyone will be working for bars of Soylent Green while remortgaging your house to pay for a doctors appointment!

So not a Porsche but a Jag. Not a sports car but a tourer?

The new Z4 will probably be trying to win back the customers that didn't go for the E89 and went for a Boxster. It'll need to be something special as the 981 gets good reviews.

We live in hope but I have my doubts with all things BMW since 2009 apart from the 135 Coupe.
2007 Z4 3.0si Sport. Silver Grey Metallic, Brembo Brakes, HEL Braided Brake Hoses, Machine Monkey Exhaust Tips, Stubby, Piano Black trim, Black Leather, Michelin Pilot Sport 4 on MV2's

Post Reply