NHS Covid App

[Smartbear]

If you catch it you’re much more likely to become seriously ill than a vaccinated person though.

I don't think the young and healthy are "much more likely to become seriously ill" when they aren't very likely to become ill in the 1st place.

But if you have any links, studies or anything to the prove that theory, then I am all eyes and ears.

Agree with what you say there with regards the the over 70's and the immune compromised. Spot on.

I never mentioned the words “young & healthy” you did that, my post was aimed at anti-vaxers generally. The vaccine has proven its effectiveness with the low death rates now being registered on a day to day basis.
Rob

[mgrlane]

Let's face it, the best possible outcome would be if every single person in the country caught it asap

I agree. I think it would be much better to get it now rather than winter flu season.

With regards to figures I agree but it's hard to fiddle them when it's two binary questions. Have you had a "vaccine" and are you infected.

I’d like to see the same graph but with the orange line displaying data for fully vaccinated people instead of just one jab.
Rob

I had a look but couldn't find one Rob.

Here is one from Israel who are a lot further down the line from us.

I know they didn't use the AZ but had the Pfizer.

[mgrlane]

I said from what little I know, not claiming to be an expert in the least. Only reason I know is bits of information from a friend who is suffering from long covid. Seems there are lots of ideas and no definitive answers.

I think you just have to accept not withstanding all you have said, getting vaccinated is the way to go, no point in anyone constantly trying to dig up internet statistics to try and prove otherwise to make oneself feel better or less guilty or justifying in not accepting the vaccine.

Tim.

My partner has decided to get hers done yesterday. Her Dad sounds alot like you Tim and has been leaning on her. Basically said the same 1st sentence to her yesterday.

[Flyingfifer]

This is actually VERY interesting, those %s basically suggest that it is utterly irrelevant if you are jabbed or not you have the exact same chance of catching the virus

[sp3ctre]

The stats are more complicated than the media portray. Sounds like a lot of folks on here are pretty wise to it, but for the general public it is very confusing, and statements like "more cases in vaccinated people" etc can be misunderstood.

In a hypothetical country where 100% of the population are vaccinated, 100% of cases will be in vaccinated people.... and our vaccinated population is going up.

[TitanTim]

I said from what little I know, not claiming to be an expert in the least. Only reason I know is bits of information from a friend who is suffering from long covid. Seems there are lots of ideas and no definitive answers.

I think you just have to accept not withstanding all you have said, getting vaccinated is the way to go, no point in anyone constantly trying to dig up internet statistics to try and prove otherwise to make oneself feel better or less guilty or justifying in not accepting the vaccine.

Tim.

My partner has decided to get hers done yesterday. Her Dad sounds alot like you Tim and has been leaning on her. Basically said the same 1st sentence to her yesterday.

I wouldn't lean on anyone, it's entirely their free choice and decision. I guess what I find hard to accept is people digging around the internet or finding ways to dumb down the virus and vaccine as being not really that serious and playing with the idea the vaccine is pointless for certain age groups . If you're wise then you know what the best thing is to do.

Tim.

[Flyingfifer]

I wouldn't lean on anyone, it's entirely their free choice and decision. I guess what I find hard to accept is people digging around the internet or finding ways to dumb down the virus and vaccine as being not really that serious and playing with the idea the vaccine is pointless for certain age groups . If you're wise then you know what the best thing is to do.

Tim.

You will just deride them on the internet for being immoral or stupid

Not really sure how the likes of me or mgrlane are "dumbing" anything down by bringing statistical & demonstrable facts to a discussion widely populated with people that are only armed with a sense of the moral high ground?

[Flyingfifer]

The stats are more complicated than the media portray. Sounds like a lot of folks on here are pretty wise to it, but for the general public it is very confusing, and statements like "more cases in vaccinated people" etc can be misunderstood.

In a hypothetical country where 100% of the population are vaccinated, 100% of cases will be in vaccinated people.... and our vaccinated population is going up.

100% agreed, unfortunately the saying "lies, damn lies and statistics" is too often true (almost all the time when it comes to the MSM) and a wider appreciation for context is completely left out in pursuit of a narrative.

[TitanTim]

I wouldn't lean on anyone, it's entirely their free choice and decision. I guess what I find hard to accept is people digging around the internet or finding ways to dumb down the virus and vaccine as being not really that serious and playing with the idea the vaccine is pointless for certain age groups . If you're wise then you know what the best thing is to do.

Tim.

You will just deride them on the internet for being immoral or stupid

Not really sure how the likes of me or mgrlane are "dumbing" anything down by bringing statistical & demonstrable facts to a discussion widely populated with people that are only armed with a sense of the moral high ground?

Maybe put the internet to one side for a change and grab a couple of vaccines instead

Tim.

[Flyingfifer]

Maybe put the internet to one side for a change and grab a couple of vaccines instead

Tim.

sick burn bro

[Flyingfifer]

I wouldn't lean on anyone, it's entirely their free choice and decision. I guess what I find hard to accept is people digging around the internet or finding ways to dumb down the virus and vaccine as being not really that serious and playing with the idea the vaccine is pointless for certain age groups . If you're wise then you know what the best thing is to do.

Tim.

Wondering what you would say to this woman Tim?
Link

A fit and healthy young woman now suffering from Functional Neurological Disorder following getting the vaccine, she will have to learn to walk again. You and others have touted the line of "its the intelligent thing to do to get the vaccine, why take the risk" yet here we have a woman who was perfectly healthy who may now never have a normal life.

[Smartbear]

I wouldn't lean on anyone, it's entirely their free choice and decision. I guess what I find hard to accept is people digging around the internet or finding ways to dumb down the virus and vaccine as being not really that serious and playing with the idea the vaccine is pointless for certain age groups . If you're wise then you know what the best thing is to do.

Tim.

Wondering what you would say to this woman Tim?
Link

A fit and healthy young woman now suffering from Functional Neurological Disorder following getting the vaccine, she will have to learn to walk again. You and others have touted the line of "its the intelligent thing to do to get the vaccine, why take the risk" yet here we have a woman who was perfectly healthy who may now never have a normal life.

That’s a bit like saying someone died from exercise so exercise is a bad thing, despite the fact it saves many more lives than it harms. It always pays to look at the bigger picture.
Rob

[Flyingfifer]

That’s a bit like saying someone died from exercise so exercise is a bad thing, despite the fact it saves many more lives than it harms. It always pays to look at the bigger picture.
Rob

I would agree entirely, the point here however is that Tim and others have made the argument that regardless of how small the risk is of dying of COVID or of developing Long COVID everyone should get the vaccine because it could be them that is unlucky, therefore the "intelligent" and "moral" thing to do is to just take the vaccine, so here we have the exact same argument but from the opposite side.

[sp3ctre]

That’s a bit like saying someone died from exercise so exercise is a bad thing, despite the fact it saves many more lives than it harms. It always pays to look at the bigger picture.
Rob

You'll never convince someone who is living in an echo chamber of social media. I have a close family member whos daughter had a bad reaction to the tried and tested vaccines we give to kids. It is very unfortunate and I feel very bad for her but I have also been to parts of the world where these diseases take and ruin lives every day. Unfortunately with the numbers we are talking about there is going to be the odd person who has a side effect, but you have to weigh up the risks... there are also lots of fit and healthy people who have been affected to varying degrees by covid 19. I know of one fitness intructer who got hit so bad he thought he was going to die at one point.

And to the post above, there is far more chance of getting Long covid than there is of getting vaccine side effects, by a long shot.

[Flyingfifer]

You'll never convince someone who is living in an echo chamber of social media. I have a close family member whos daughter had a bad reaction to the tried and tested vaccines we give to kids. It is very unfortunate and I feel very bad for her but I have also been to parts of the world where these diseases take and ruin lives every day. Unfortunately with the numbers we are talking about there is going to be the odd person who has a side effect, but you have to weigh up the risks... there are also lots of fit and healthy people who have been affected to varying degrees by covid 19. I know of one fitness intructer who got hit so bad he thought he was going to die at one point.

Absolutely agree, I have consistently held the position that it is up to the individual to weigh the risks for themselves and make their own decision that is right for them. Unfortunately others have derided me and others for making our own decisions insinuating or outright saying that its immoral and stupid.

And to the post above, there is far more chance of getting Long covid than there is of getting vaccine side effects, by a long shot.

Absolutely right, in terms of serious/severe or long term side effects which are below 1% (around 0.01%) but the frequency of non severe/short term side effects is between 20% and 70% (20% from real world reporting though many non severe ones will be unreported and 70% from studies focused on side effects where anything and everything is reported some of which could be unrelated to the vaccine)