FOR SALE A precautionary tale when selling a car !

[mr.tourette]

Not sure why you would blame the victim here but.....

I'm not blaming the victim. If you read my posts properly (which you obviously haven't), I was trying to play devil's advocate, that is looking at it from the law's point of view. As I have stated multiple times on this thread, I don't disagree that anything that happened here SHOULDN'T be a crime, just not convinced it actually IS.

AND if there was an attempted fraud, what the police can realistically do about it?

Isnt that why the word "conspiracy “ is used rather than attempted, people go to jail all the time for conspiracy to commit crimes without ever even actually commiting one.. there does of course have to be some hard evidence rather than hearsay which it seems is lacking here as the video footage would be inconclusive, they have conspired to commit fraud but I believe Pondew you are right there's not much that can be done about it unfortunately

[Flyingfifer]

Not sure why you would blame the victim here but.....

I'm not blaming the victim. If you read my posts properly (which you obviously haven't), I was trying to play devil's advocate, that is looking at it from the law's point of view. As I have stated multiple times on this thread, I don't disagree that anything that happened here SHOULDN'T be a crime, just not convinced it actually IS.

AND if there was an attempted fraud, what the police can realistically do about it?

Dude, BS.

You started off by suggesting that the neighbour was stupid for having 2 guys come and see the car

I really thought you were going to say while one distracted him, the other one drove the car away. Going back to a different topic, he shouldn't have had two strangers in his car during the present situation anyway. I'm surprised the police didn't fine him for breaking Covid rules (actually strike that, no I'm not)!
I would NEVER take two grown men on a test drive at the best of times, let alone at the moment.

You then went on to suggest there was no offence committed and basically ridiculing any attempt to pursue it

Should also report the Police lack of interest re an offence of Fraud to the local Police Crime Commissioner.

Yeah, good luck with that! They didn't commit an offence, they tried to dupe him.

You then reiterate there was no crime committed (in your opinion), back that up by claiming that you have to be "under duress" (which you do not need to be from a legal perspective) and lastly try to belittle people who want the police and the laws of their country to protect them.

Just because they were bad at it doesn't make it less of a crime. That's called "attempted fraud and deception" here, I assume you would have a similar law. In fact if the police were serious they could charge them with numerous other offences as well. Tell him to find a copper who takes their job seriously.....not the plonker he spoke to.

Maybe in Aus; not here. I can't see what crime has been committed. I'm not saying it shouldn't be a crime, it should, but they a) didn't steal anything and b) didn't gain money under false pretense (fraud). Attempted fraud is quite rightly nigh on impossible to prove.
If you willingly (and this is the point willingly without coercion) volunteer to give someone anything of monetary value it is not a crime, unless you can prove it was under duress, which in this case does not apply.

If they had duped the chap into selling his car to them for a few hundred quid, I think he would have a VERY difficult time convincing anyone he was anything but stupid; and stupidity or ignorance is not a valid defence in this country at the moment (thank God).

Why do (some people) immediately go crying to the law because they made poor decisions? The law deals with facts and crimes, not conjecture.

You had nuclear hot take, just accept it and save your shoes all this walk back

This is a scam, scams are illegal, just because your scam failed doesnt make it any less illegal. Bet your a$$ if they tried that at a dealership the cops would be there!

[Nanu]

Not sure why you would blame the victim here but.....

I'm not blaming the victim. If you read my posts properly (which you obviously haven't), I was trying to play devil's advocate, that is looking at it from the law's point of view. As I have stated multiple times on this thread, I don't disagree that anything that happened here SHOULDN'T be a crime, just not convinced it actually IS.

AND if there was an attempted fraud, what the police can realistically do about it?

An attempt to commit an offence carries the same punishment as if they had actually committed the substantive offence. In the case a Fraud under the Fraud Act that is 10 years imprisonment.

[Jamie25]

In UK law this is about as straight forward a case of Fruad by misrepresentation as your likely to see.
Section 2 of the Fraud act 2006. No actual gain needs to have been made; as a result it's not possible to attempt fraud. The legal Definition is as follows:
"Fraud by false representation (Section 2)
The defendant:
made a false representation
dishonestly
knowing that the representation was or might be untrue or misleading
with intent to make a gain for himself or another, to cause loss to another or to expose another to risk of loss"
The offence is entirely focused on the conduct of the defendant and their intent.
https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/fraud-act-2006
It goes on further to say (amongst many other things)
"Gain" includes a gain by keeping what one has, as well as a gain by getting what one does not have (Section 5 (3)).
"Loss" includes a loss by not getting what one might get as well as a loss by parting with what one has (Section 5 (4)).
The Defendant must intend to make the gain or cause the loss by means of the false representation, which can be hard to prove but the Cctv in this case would speak to their intent and false representation. Identifying the b£#*! ~ds is another matter!

[Flyingfifer]

In UK law this is about as straight forward a case of Fruad by misrepresentation as your likely to see.
.....