At what point will Z's become worthless?

[Mr Tidy]

Any advances on 20 years?
Rob

Thanks Rob.

But it'll happen to you one day as well.

[buzyg]

IC cars will be around as long as there is petrol and people who want / can afford to drive them.

10 years it won't be so different to now. Not untill they sort out the second hand market ref batteries that cost more than the car.

Targets and reality, seldom similar especially when generated by political numpties with little grasp of the former.

[Smartbear]

Any advances on 20 years?
Rob

Thanks Rob.

But it'll happen to you one day as well.

Yep, we’re all on the same conveyor belt. Some are just nearer the end than others!
Rob

[scootr]

20 years ago it was a lot easier to get in and out of these little cars and I had hair on my head,
.... not just on my back and ears

[enzed4]

Back on topic (not that I'm even remotely a spring chicken...), what about Hydrogen? Surely if this can become mainstream it will blow electric out of the water? I thought the biggest problem was the safe storage of it, and some Australian scientists have sorted that just recently according to a news item I saw some months ago. Seems a more sustainable and environmentally-friendly option.

[scootr]

Of notable mention on the electric end... there is some disagreement on the the inventor of lithium batteries but, there is a groundbreaking development coming now which will make the electric cell cheap and environmentally friendly to produce and recycle. I believe this development comes in the form of a silica based storage system which is completely safe and easily replenished.
Read for yourself if interested here > https://news.utexas.edu/2017/02/28/good ... echnology/

[Adam D]

Given how long it’s taking to roll out high speed broadband to the masses it’s going to be decades before there is the infrastructure in place for a mass ev revolution. Currently it’s adopted for company car tax dodging and those who love gadgets (and are wealthy).

When the taxation incentive is removed I cannot see it being as popular.

I will be buying a bi Turbo v8 while I can

[Crazy Harry]

Back on topic (not that I'm even remotely a spring chicken...), what about Hydrogen? Surely if this can become mainstream it will blow electric out of the water? I thought the biggest problem was the safe storage of it, and some Australian scientists have sorted that just recently according to a news item I saw some months ago. Seems a more sustainable and environmentally-friendly option.

Yep I still think hydrogen. The jump to electric may turn out to be a political knee jerk - it was an available solution to an immediate problem. As a rural dweller I look at the street parking when I go into the city (double parked half on pavement) and I can't imagine how if all these cars were electric they could all be charged (and kids unpluging them at night!. Let alone the carbon foot print from producing all the cable required - but converting service stations to include a hydrogen 'pump' far less work.

The only way I can see electric working is to have no privately owned cars - all electric and autonomous. You need a car; you dial a ride and when the car drops you off it goes back to the nearest (small local) depot; self cleans (like those street toilets) recharges if time/need then on to the next job. If state owned it can do long trips no problem and just tramps around the country. When it needs servicing it schedules itself a stop at a major repair/repair centre. Most cars spend most of their life not moving so why have one of your own?

Of course its because we gain pleasure in the trill of controlling one - so for now I'm off to burn as much fun as I can

[Bottom]

Hydrogen is useless. Terrible energy density, very difficult to store or transport, very very energy dependant to make, highly explosive. None of the car makers who were experimenting with the stuff have continued and are back tracking to BEVs quickly.

[enzed4]

Hydrogen is useless. Terrible energy density, very difficult to store or transport, very very energy dependant to make, highly explosive. None of the car makers who were experimenting with the stuff have continued and are back tracking to BEVs quickly.

I don't know about the other issues (I'm not familiar with energy density), but my post did mention that the safe storage has supposedly been resolved (your points in italics), but it's still too early to mass produce anything. It seems we've all adopted electric as the 'solution' but as Crazy Harry, pointed out, how much of that is just political expediency?

[JamieZ4C]

highly explosive

The arguments people come up with for or against the various fuel types makes me laugh.

Given the strength of the cylinders used to store the hydrogen (because, you know, manafacturers think of things like that), how is it any more dangerous than driving around with a big tank of petrol?!

The electrical system in EVs is potentially highly dangerous, but people don't worry about that... because, you know, manufacturers think of things like that.

Hydrogen has a good chance of being adopted as a fuel of the future. Do your research or better still speak with Toyota, BMW, and Hyundai about their projects. As part of my job, I've been lucky enough to do that, it's very interesting. I even got to drive the Mirai. Ugly car though

[Bottom]

I don't have an axe to grind in this debate, I have a BEV and (obviously) a Z4m and a diesel SUV... so enlighten me and point me in a useful direction. Hydrogen is a lot more explosive than petrol and is much more likely to leak out.

Here's the Wiki page on BMWs Hydrogen experimental car: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_Hydrogen_7

Doesn't look like any kind of step forward to me on any level. Energy density about 1/7th of petrol.

The tank will drain itself every 14 days as the H2 decompresses and vents safely to the atmosphere. Making the stuff seems very energy intensive, transport costs are very high because it's so hard to store (apologies, I can't find an article where the storage is definitely taken care of _ link?)

We already have the infrastructure in place for electricity pretty much everywhere, I live in a fairly remote area and there are 4 public chargers within 20 miles of my house. If all else fails I can just stick the plug in a 13A socket My son has a Leaf and doesn't have a driveway or home charger and manages perfectly well with it just using the public chargers near his house and at the shopping centre he uses.

[enzed4]

I don't have an axe to grind in this debate, I have a BEV and (obviously) a Z4m and a diesel SUV... so enlighten me and point me in a useful direction. Hydrogen is a lot more explosive than petrol and is much more likely to leak out.

Here's the Wiki page on BMWs Hydrogen experimental car: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_Hydrogen_7

Doesn't look like any kind of step forward to me on any level. Energy density about 1/7th of petrol.

The tank will drain itself every 14 days as the H2 decompresses and vents safely to the atmosphere. Making the stuff seems very energy intensive, transport costs are very high because it's so hard to store (apologies, I can't find an article where the storage is definitely taken care of _ link?)

We already have the infrastructure in place for electricity pretty much everywhere, I live in a fairly remote area and there are 4 public chargers within 20 miles of my house. If all else fails I can just stick the plug in a 13A socket My son has a Leaf and doesn't have a driveway or home charger and manages perfectly well with it just using the public chargers near his house and at the shopping centre he uses.

Possible storage solution solved:
https://www.businessinsider.com.au/aust ... nia-2018-8

[Adam D]

I don't have an axe to grind in this debate, I have a BEV and (obviously) a Z4m and a diesel SUV... so enlighten me and point me in a useful direction. Hydrogen is a lot more explosive than petrol and is much more likely to leak out.

Here's the Wiki page on BMWs Hydrogen experimental car: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_Hydrogen_7

Doesn't look like any kind of step forward to me on any level. Energy density about 1/7th of petrol.

The tank will drain itself every 14 days as the H2 decompresses and vents safely to the atmosphere. Making the stuff seems very energy intensive, transport costs are very high because it's so hard to store (apologies, I can't find an article where the storage is definitely taken care of _ link?)

We already have the infrastructure in place for electricity pretty much everywhere, I live in a fairly remote area and there are 4 public chargers within 20 miles of my house. If all else fails I can just stick the plug in a 13A socket My son has a Leaf and doesn't have a driveway or home charger and manages perfectly well with it just using the public chargers near his house and at the shopping centre he uses.

There may well be power to most uk homes but many homes will need some significant upgrades to their incoming supply and home wiring to fit anything better than a 3.6kw charger. Taking an EV with an 85kw power pack that would be constantly on charge for 24 hours assuming lossless conversion into stored energy. Who would be happy running their kettle for 24 hours for 250 m of range, my so called smart meter would have a fit

Petrol range extending hybrids which can be home charged in a reasonable time and have the flexibility of running on petrol too seem a better bet.