Would you change your vote ?

[NickDE]

I would vote remain again

[sp3ctre]

Feels like the remain argument is like telling someone in an abusive relationship that they should stay in it because they would be financially better off. Sometimes it's worth a bit of hardship to get away from a poisonous relationship. Just my opinion, of course.

[Vornwend]

The fact that Brexit will bind us for decades to come is precisely the reason why its different than electing a fixed term government where we have a chance to change direction every 5 years. In most countries changes of this scale and complexity require the bar be set a lot higher than a simple majority. I voted remain and would still vote remain. I don't particularly like the idea of a second referendum but I think it might be the only way out of the mess we are in. May's deal is really no deal at all because we don't know what we will get or when we will get it. All we know is that the status quo will mostly persist whilst in transition during which time we will try and make the wishy washy wish list in the political declaration a reality. I hope parliament votes against the deal and also rules out a no deal. If that happens the only sensible way forward is to extend article 50.

That’s strange, I don’t remember calls for extra referendums when we entered the common market-surely the same reasoning applied back then about us being committed for decades etc etc
Rob

Indeed but I believe the vote you refer to (1975) was massively in favour at 67.3% - almost every area of the country voted to remain. By coincidence 2/3rds is often used as an appropriate bar for change of this magnitude The UK joined the EEC in 1973 and there was no vote. Interestingly the referendum in 2016 was not legally binding and the government could have treated it as advisory if it had so chosen - with hindsight perhaps that would have been wise given the narrowness of the result and the utter shambles that has followed. Unfortunately Cameron committed to implement the result regardless of how close it might be effectively tying his successors hands.

[Mr Tidy]

I don't see another referendum as undemocratic if the first vote was taken without a true knowledge of what would be the real consequences of leaving the EU - no mention was made of the NI border from either side two years ago as just one example - we have the NHS in crisis largely because of the reduction of nurses and doctors who cannot see a future in the UK - the same thing is happening to the farming and hospitality services . If democracy dictates that an ill informed decision is sacrosanct then this can't be right and the country remains as divided as ever - another referendum at least will have an informed foundation and hopefully help to unify the people in to accepting whatever the outcome.

That may be true for many of us on here, but for many of the people I saw interviewed just after the result was announced 2 years ago they wouldn't have any more knowledge of what they were voting for now than they did then!

Some Snowflake generational said she voted remain as she didn't want to have to get a visa to go to France! When did we ever need that?

I voted for Brexit and still would - but the current deal is hopeless! I suppose that's what you get when the PM in charge of negotiating it wanted to remain anyway and doesn't have a proper majority - or any balls!

Shame Maggie T never called a referendum - she'd have kicked the Euro a*ses.

[sp3ctre]

I wonder if the remain voters will finally shut up if there is another vote and it goes the same way (or will they want best of 5?).

They seem confident that people will change their minds, but I'm not seeing that. Most people I speak to will not change their vote.

As I see it there are a few people who will change their vote, but then there is another camp who will vote to respect the result of the first vote (seeing quite a lot of that). Question is, which camp is the biggest.

[mmm-five]

Even if everyone who voted, votes the same way, the extra couple of million people who are now eligible to vote might swing it the other way.

Maybe only the people who voted in the first referendum should get the opportunity to vote again / change their vote?

[Vornwend]

Feels like the remain argument is like telling someone in an abusive relationship that they should stay in it because they would be financially better off. Sometimes it's worth a bit of hardship to get away from a poisonous relationship. Just my opinion, of course.

I would have to agree with you except I don't think it is a poisonous or abusive relationship - far from it. Its been massively beneficial to our country and has enabled us to move from being the sick man of Europe to amongst the strongest. I agree that the Eton boys and some sections of the press have for their own reasons chosen to portray the EU as our bitter enemy and those who knew that was wrong did not raise their voices early enough. Fair enough Britain never bought in to the political project but the EU was prepared to allow us to take a different route while still in the union - eg not being a member of the Euro, our rebate or the Schengen travel area. We had the best of both worlds and a far better deal than we have been offered now - in my opinion.

[Vornwend]

Some Snowflake generational said she voted remain as she didn't want to have to get a visa to go to France! When did we ever need that?

I think both sides of this argument were misled. For your voter who thought visas were a reason to vote remain I raise you the millions who believed the battle bus claim that we would have a £350M /week brexit dividend, the millions who were told immigrants were a drain on our economy or the millions who believed countries were lining up to do trade deals with us. I prefer not to blame people for the way they voted but to point the finger at those who misled us, sometimes deliberately. People had a right to know what they were voting for.

[Mr Tidy]

I think both sides of this argument were misled. For your voter who thought visas were a reason to vote remain I raise you the millions who believed the battle bus claim that we would have a £350M /week brexit dividend, the millions who were told immigrants were a drain on our economy or the millions who believed countries were lining up to do trade deals with us. I prefer not to blame people for the way they voted but to point the finger at those who misled us, sometimes deliberately. People had a right to know what they were voting for.

I wouldn't disagree with you, but are most voters going to understand what they are voting for any better the 2nd time than they did 1st time around? I doubt it somehow!

[montymog]

alienzed perfect sum up

[Ewazix]

alienzed perfect sum up

I agree, we're analized either way

[Vornwend]

I think both sides of this argument were misled. For your voter who thought visas were a reason to vote remain I raise you the millions who believed the battle bus claim that we would have a £350M /week brexit dividend, the millions who were told immigrants were a drain on our economy or the millions who believed countries were lining up to do trade deals with us. I prefer not to blame people for the way they voted but to point the finger at those who misled us, sometimes deliberately. People had a right to know what they were voting for.

I wouldn't disagree with you, but are most voters going to understand what they are voting for any better the 2nd time than they did 1st time around? I doubt it somehow!

Its a very fair point. It was always going to be hard to explain the complexities of international trade and economics to such a huge number of people (even Cabinet ministers seem to have misunderstood some of the basics!) although I do think it could have been done a lot better. A lot of what happened last time was therefore reduced to short soundbites - take back control of our borders, money and laws. stop sending huge sums to the EU, they need us more than we need them, WTO rules are no problem, we can have frictionless trade at our borders, millions of jobs will be lost, house prices will tumble, inflation will go up etc etc. Project believe v project fear - how could the guy in the street be expected to know which is true or really understand the risks and benefits? In some cases it seems that the government had not even done its own research before it launched the referendum so frightened was it of UKIP. I don't think many will have changed their mind but perhaps that will soon be tested. May's deal is closer to remain than any of the stuff Johnson, Mogg and Davies were urging and it remains to be seen whether a second referendum will be supported by those characters.

[MrPT]

I’m up for a referendum. A lot of brexiteers will have died of natural causes since the last one.

(^ a joke)

[Ewazix]

I’m up for a referendum. A lot of brexiteers will have died of natural causes since the last one.

(^ a joke)

Serious point actually, even if nobody changed their vote my guess is that a new vote now would probably be to remain because of demographic changes. In the last two years 1.2 million people have died and 2 million youngsters can now vote. If the original Common Market referendum wasn't binding forever, was the 2016 vote?

[road warrior]

i remind the Honorable gentlemen to the simple fact that you can always tell when a politician lies - his lips move.. and they are all there to line their own pockets, anything else is purely coincidental, the art of a being a politician is to be able lie with a straight face and never admit anything or answer a question.