haha - i humble in your presence Sir - my apologies - but it was after all an american writeup about an American product.
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Mac v Windows
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road warrior
- Senior Member
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- Joined: Wed May 23, 2018 2:12 pm
- Location: Burton On trent
Mac v Windows
If you ever think I'm off my rocker.. Just put me back in it and walk away... It's the kindest thing
My wife says I never listen - or something like that.
gone but not forgotton -Mean Steve - made a sound like a bear with his nuts in a trap.
My wife says I never listen - or something like that.
gone but not forgotton -Mean Steve - made a sound like a bear with his nuts in a trap.
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mmm-five
- Lifer
- Posts: 12722
- Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2008 1:03 pm
- Location: Liverpool
- Contact:
Mac v Windows
If we're going down memory lane...
At about 18, I started programming COBOL on IBM System 36 and then AS400. Finally went to PCs with no hard drive, twin floppy drives and 640k memory limited by the processor design.
Couldn't get a proper job programming (due to age bias, as I was told quite bluntly that as I was under 25 I wasn't seen as mature enough for the job), so I went to the temping agencies and looked for data entry/typing jobs as I could do 80wpm.
The first job they sent me to was to support a Project Management team at AP Precision Hydraulics (the company that makes AP brakes, suspension for aeroplanes, etc.).
Got there on my first morning as was sat behind a 12"x18" beige box with a screen in the middle...that was my first introduction to Macs (a Mac SE). When I asked why they were using that instead of a PC, I was told it was because there was no suitable windowing environment available for PCs and the software for doing DTP was crap.
They were EXPENSIVE though - about £4000 back then for a (with the 4mb of RAM, optional FPU, and 20mb HD).
So I was left to my own devices, and after a day I'd learnt to use DTP, word processing and spreadsheet programmes (at that time, I believe it was Aldus Persuasion, Aldus Pagemaker, Informix Wingz, and Microsoft Word). We couldn't use Powerpoint as it didn't exist, Excel would only allow about 100 rows/columns (Wingz was only limited by the amount of memory).
Until that day, I'd used DOS based programmes (WordStar, Supercalc) but everything on the Mac opened up quicker, required no typing to launch/save/close/etc. as you could use the mouse for these (or still use keyboard shortcuts). These DTP programmes were not even produced for DOS as the time. Even things like putting diacritics above/below letters for foreign languages was simple on the Mac - you didn't have to remember hundreds of Alt-ASCII codes.
I've worked on IIvi, IIvx, Classic, LCII, LCII, Performa, Centris, Quadra, PowerMac, interspersed with months/years at clients who use Windows (usually on Dell & HP, or even Wyse terminals), and I've never once missed leaving the PC/Windows world and getting back to a client that uses MacOS.
Saying all that, I'd never buy a Mac laptop or MacMini as I don't think they're worth the money - and I'd need to ensure my client could provide me with a decent monitor on site (which rarely happens) - but I've been happy with the MacPro or iMacs I've bought (tended to be the top-of-the-line version each time so that I got as many years out of it as possible). My old 2008 MacPro workhorse is being used by my sister and running the latest-but-one operating system; and my niece is using my 2008 iMac. I've not had to fix/upgrade either computer since I handed them over.
I currently have a 21.5" 2012 iMac for 'mobile' working, and a 2017 27" 5k iMac for home. Both are dual boot between MacOS Mojave and Windows 10.
I do basically the same job now, and am operating system-agnostic (between MacOS and Windows), as I work with what the client requires. My 'toolkit' consists mainly of Photoshop, InDesign, Illustrator, Quark, Word, Excel, Powerpoint, Acrobat - and in the case of the Microsoft products, I prefer to use them on Windows as they're faster (wonder why!?) and have more features.
If I needed to run Windows only, then I can't see the point in even considering buying a Mac - especially if you're going to try to justify a £250 spend on a thin tin box that's using the cheapest version of any specific component the maker can find - it's like buying pattern parts from a motor factor or using premium fuel - yes, they'll do the same job to a point, but might not last the distance or give you all the benefit you expect - but the average 'Joe' may not even notice a difference.
I do think that a fair chunk of the price difference is down to Apple being greedy - but it still doesn't mean it's not a quality product.
I use a Logitech MX Master mouse BTW - the Apple ones are s**t!
At about 18, I started programming COBOL on IBM System 36 and then AS400. Finally went to PCs with no hard drive, twin floppy drives and 640k memory limited by the processor design.
Couldn't get a proper job programming (due to age bias, as I was told quite bluntly that as I was under 25 I wasn't seen as mature enough for the job), so I went to the temping agencies and looked for data entry/typing jobs as I could do 80wpm.
The first job they sent me to was to support a Project Management team at AP Precision Hydraulics (the company that makes AP brakes, suspension for aeroplanes, etc.).
Got there on my first morning as was sat behind a 12"x18" beige box with a screen in the middle...that was my first introduction to Macs (a Mac SE). When I asked why they were using that instead of a PC, I was told it was because there was no suitable windowing environment available for PCs and the software for doing DTP was crap.
They were EXPENSIVE though - about £4000 back then for a (with the 4mb of RAM, optional FPU, and 20mb HD).
So I was left to my own devices, and after a day I'd learnt to use DTP, word processing and spreadsheet programmes (at that time, I believe it was Aldus Persuasion, Aldus Pagemaker, Informix Wingz, and Microsoft Word). We couldn't use Powerpoint as it didn't exist, Excel would only allow about 100 rows/columns (Wingz was only limited by the amount of memory).
Until that day, I'd used DOS based programmes (WordStar, Supercalc) but everything on the Mac opened up quicker, required no typing to launch/save/close/etc. as you could use the mouse for these (or still use keyboard shortcuts). These DTP programmes were not even produced for DOS as the time. Even things like putting diacritics above/below letters for foreign languages was simple on the Mac - you didn't have to remember hundreds of Alt-ASCII codes.
I've worked on IIvi, IIvx, Classic, LCII, LCII, Performa, Centris, Quadra, PowerMac, interspersed with months/years at clients who use Windows (usually on Dell & HP, or even Wyse terminals), and I've never once missed leaving the PC/Windows world and getting back to a client that uses MacOS.
Saying all that, I'd never buy a Mac laptop or MacMini as I don't think they're worth the money - and I'd need to ensure my client could provide me with a decent monitor on site (which rarely happens) - but I've been happy with the MacPro or iMacs I've bought (tended to be the top-of-the-line version each time so that I got as many years out of it as possible). My old 2008 MacPro workhorse is being used by my sister and running the latest-but-one operating system; and my niece is using my 2008 iMac. I've not had to fix/upgrade either computer since I handed them over.
I currently have a 21.5" 2012 iMac for 'mobile' working, and a 2017 27" 5k iMac for home. Both are dual boot between MacOS Mojave and Windows 10.
I do basically the same job now, and am operating system-agnostic (between MacOS and Windows), as I work with what the client requires. My 'toolkit' consists mainly of Photoshop, InDesign, Illustrator, Quark, Word, Excel, Powerpoint, Acrobat - and in the case of the Microsoft products, I prefer to use them on Windows as they're faster (wonder why!?) and have more features.
If I needed to run Windows only, then I can't see the point in even considering buying a Mac - especially if you're going to try to justify a £250 spend on a thin tin box that's using the cheapest version of any specific component the maker can find - it's like buying pattern parts from a motor factor or using premium fuel - yes, they'll do the same job to a point, but might not last the distance or give you all the benefit you expect - but the average 'Joe' may not even notice a difference.
I do think that a fair chunk of the price difference is down to Apple being greedy - but it still doesn't mean it's not a quality product.
I use a Logitech MX Master mouse BTW - the Apple ones are s**t!
Trigger’s Z4MC
Some bits now over 163,000 miles, some less than 1,000 miles.
Individual Ruby Black, Individual extended champagne leather, plus many options
Some bits now over 163,000 miles, some less than 1,000 miles.
Individual Ruby Black, Individual extended champagne leather, plus many options
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TitanTim
- Lifer
- Posts: 8055
- Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2012 11:21 pm
Mac v Windows
Apple quality perception is good but an Apple MacBook Pro compared to a Dell XPS 15 4k touch screen is no where near worth hundreds up to 1k more, if people think it is they are seriously delusioned or have plenty of money to throw away.sp3ctre wrote: ↑Fri Dec 14, 2018 12:15 pm Road Warrior, it seems like you're the one getting wound up with your "lighthearted banter". Not quite sure what the point of the history of computers copy/paste was either.
I have used a lot of computers, HP/Dell/Microsoft... none of them "feel" as nice to use as my Mac. Some of that is the fit/finish (sure, there have been problems with specific models) and some of it is the OS. Point is, it's nice kit, it works well for me... yes it's expensive, but so are some cars, Vouis Vuitton luggage, Breitling/Rolex watches...
Tim.
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sp3ctre
- Site Admin
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Mac v Windows
But it's not just that, as well as the quality I also get to use Mac OS rather than Windows, which I much prefer.
People who buy new Z4's have money to throw away
People who buy expensive watches have money to throw away
People who buy brand name luggage have money to throw away
Point being, it's not all about "value"... You like the Dell XPS, that's great... personally I am not a fan (and I hate touch screens)
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sp3ctre
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Mac v Windows
Also, you say it's not "worth" £1000 more... I am really happy working on my Macbook Pro. I would be less happy working in Windows. So surely it's subjective whether that is worth £1000 or not?
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BeeEmm
- Senior Member
- Posts: 1512
- Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:23 am
- Location: London
Mac v Windows
I'm bored with this Windows/MAC thing. Can we start on Religion now? 
I used to have two boys and a girl. Now I have two Men and a Woman. 
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mmm-five
- Lifer
- Posts: 12722
- Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2008 1:03 pm
- Location: Liverpool
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Mac v Windows
But this IS a religion...for some saddos!
Trigger’s Z4MC
Some bits now over 163,000 miles, some less than 1,000 miles.
Individual Ruby Black, Individual extended champagne leather, plus many options
Some bits now over 163,000 miles, some less than 1,000 miles.
Individual Ruby Black, Individual extended champagne leather, plus many options
-
road warrior
- Senior Member
- Posts: 2287
- Joined: Wed May 23, 2018 2:12 pm
- Location: Burton On trent
Mac v Windows
If you ever think I'm off my rocker.. Just put me back in it and walk away... It's the kindest thing
My wife says I never listen - or something like that.
gone but not forgotton -Mean Steve - made a sound like a bear with his nuts in a trap.
My wife says I never listen - or something like that.
gone but not forgotton -Mean Steve - made a sound like a bear with his nuts in a trap.
-
road warrior
- Senior Member
- Posts: 2287
- Joined: Wed May 23, 2018 2:12 pm
- Location: Burton On trent
Mac v Windows
very well = my god is better than your god - discuss
although. is the god thing more hotly discussed right now than ... BREXIT .. only the brave ...
If you ever think I'm off my rocker.. Just put me back in it and walk away... It's the kindest thing
My wife says I never listen - or something like that.
gone but not forgotton -Mean Steve - made a sound like a bear with his nuts in a trap.
My wife says I never listen - or something like that.
gone but not forgotton -Mean Steve - made a sound like a bear with his nuts in a trap.
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buzyg
- Legend
- Posts: 26515
- Joined: Fri May 20, 2011 6:11 pm
- Location: Cornwall
Mac v Windows
I'm enjoying reading this thread no end. Though hopeful there may be an end soon 
Not currently having any devices that use either Mac or Windows OS, I shall continue to sit on the fence. Thank goodness for Android. 
Not currently having any devices that use either Mac or Windows OS, I shall continue to sit on the fence. Thank goodness for Android. 
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road warrior
- Senior Member
- Posts: 2287
- Joined: Wed May 23, 2018 2:12 pm
- Location: Burton On trent
Mac v Windows
only when we are all dead .. and then only maybe.. but yes its fun isnt it..
If you ever think I'm off my rocker.. Just put me back in it and walk away... It's the kindest thing
My wife says I never listen - or something like that.
gone but not forgotton -Mean Steve - made a sound like a bear with his nuts in a trap.
My wife says I never listen - or something like that.
gone but not forgotton -Mean Steve - made a sound like a bear with his nuts in a trap.
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slick
- Senior Member
- Posts: 2216
- Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2012 9:30 pm
Mac v Windows
Who gives a s**t about computers............coke and prostitutes.............now you're talkin'
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Porsche 987 Boxster 3.4S
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TVR Chimerea 4 litres of rolling thunder
Corvette C6 a moment of insanity
E89 3.0i