Negotiating Brexit

[exdos]

It is easy to understand the frustration with Brexit from both leavers and remainers perspectives because the so-called "negotiations " have been dragging on. However, from the moment the UK initiated Article 50 on 29th March 2017, the EU was never intending to settle any agreement early (it wants the UK's payments for as long as possible) and the EU always takes the full time to reach any conclusions. As such, the UK has had to go through the motions and run down the clock which keeps ticking until mid-October before the EU starts to properly negotiate. What we've been fed by the media about the Brexit negotiations over the past 18 months is just "guff". Brexit should only be judged by the deal (or otherwise) that we reach with the EU when we actually leave the bloc. The question is: how willing is the EU prepared to lose the UK as both a customer and a financial contributor?

[Nictrix]

I don't follow much of politics but what I do think is that no matter whether a politician voted to leave or remain or whether they agree with the decision that was made they should all be standing by the vote and doing their best to help where they can instead of fighting and bickering between themselves.
If they cannot back the decision of the people they represent they should not be in the post they are in.

[RustyZ4]

There's a lot of speculation flying about, mixed with a good dose of scaremongering, all I hear on anything to do with Brexit is,,,, might, possibly, could,,, etc etc,,, truth is, no one knows

[Jembo]

To be honest I have given up hope on brexit now, I voted leave under the stupid idea that our political leaders and the EU leaders would negotiate a sensible agreement meeting the views of the British electorate (both leave and remain) ending with a strong new partnership with the EU but not part of it which in my mind would be the best option for all. It would appear depending on which news outlet you read we are going to either be part of the EU but with no input on rules etc or an apocalyptic fall of a cliff

You’ve obviously never been through a practise marriage or had to deal with the legal system at its worst.

The fallout stays with you for the rest of your life... for many like a millstone round their necks.

I despise how unanswerable the EU has become with our money, though if you compare the overall availability of services, quality of life, how easy it has become compared to the 70’s to move about, no more 15% interest rates, work & play... it’s why I voted to remain, but respect the wishes of the majority.

However, I still believe the British people should be allowed to vote for the deal they want... given options, including one which says remain.

Whichever deal gets the most votes, knowing what we know now, that’s the one we take

[sp3ctre]

To me it feels like the EU is like the Mafia... sure, you'll be better off financially if you stay, but it's a horrible organisation that will punish you if you leave. Just feels nasty being part of such a thing.

[jimmybell]

If you work on the assumption that we, the British people, would like a sensible departure from the EU, and a bright future alongside our friendly neighbours.

Now, there's a few interesting questions we should consider from that:

Who, within the British people, has a vested interest in a failure of a 'sensible' departure?
Economically, russia? Who Politically stands to immediately gain if it goes wrong? Boris, Corbyn.. both conveniently anti-EU too.. so a win-win for them. Odd how quiet our 'opposition party' are currently, isn't it?

Who within the EU loses out as a result of UK departure?
You could argue if the EU was run like a FTSE100 business, losing 10% of it's revenue would be the end of a CEO/management team, failing to recover that situation would be the end of the replacement team. I'm reasonably confident EU politicians would love an end-goal where they supercede (more-so) national political control for the Make Great Federations of Europing - losing control of a significant nation or potential future sub-nation is a huge blow.

And what are the voices of these groups? You'll note recently the remain media is starting to report (whether accurate or not) that hardcore leave areas are 'flocking back to remain' - as if to say to other leave voters "Look, even people in Wales are saying Leave was wrong now.. it's OK for you to think the same" in some last ditch attempt to turn the ship around.

[Z4C_er]

There is a bigger agenda that doesn't want it to happen. It will upset the 'new world order'. I can't believe what I see and read about Brexit. As I've said to other people, if this was a divorce proceeding, and you were watching from the docks, and the UK was the husband, you'd be screaming "run, run, run away from that vindictive, selfish, manipulative, greedy, messed up BITCH!!!"

[exdos]

There is a bigger agenda that doesn't want it to happen. It will upset the 'new world order'"

Exactly!

Also, the EU's absolute insistence on the principle of the free movement of people is part of the EU elite's agenda to implement the "Coudenhove-Kalergi Plan" (look it up if you've not heard of this "plan" before). A couple of generations from now, free movement of people will abolish all "nation states" within the EU bloc thus removing national representation in the EU Parliament in Brussels and transferring government to a single EU power with jurisdiction over the entire European continent as a single country except for those countries outside the EU (i.e. the UK).

[jimmybell]

To me it feels like the EU is like the Mafia... sure, you'll be better off financially if you stay, but it's a horrible organisation that will punish you if you leave. Just feels nasty being part of such a thing.

Funny you should say that.. some irony in the mafia being the EU and the stuck member being Italy:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/20 ... at-turkey/

[Nictrix]

And what are the voices of these groups? You'll note recently the remain media is starting to report (whether accurate or not) that hardcore leave areas are 'flocking back to remain' - as if to say to other leave voters "Look, even people in Wales are saying Leave was wrong now.. it's OK for you to think the same" in some last ditch attempt to turn the ship around.

This sounds very like the reports since the Scottish Referendum where there are lots of polls where people who used to be in the "better together" camp now say that they would vote "yes" to leave the UK.
What has been said about this is tough, you had your vote, the majority voted to stay, now get on with it.
Where is democracy and what is the point in asking the people if there is a U-turn and the country stays in Europe?

[Crazy Harry]

Funny how Cameron has vanished from the scene. One could make a reasoned and sustainable argument that it was his lack of political awareness that got us to the position we are in now. having 'got away' with a referendum over Scottish independence he pushed his luck (no doubt to keep some grip on his own party) assuming the British public would pull the rabbit out of the hat for him again.

I don't think he had any concept of the depth of feeling of the British public who FELT alienated and unserved by Europe (whether they were or not) seeing no return on the investment the UK made to Europe. Had he gone into the last round of meetings when he was trying to broker a better deal and spelt out to the other 26 what would happen (UK going) if the deal for the UK didn't appear better he might never have needed to call the referendum - didn't Mrs T pull that trick off in the 80s? He didn't have the vision of what the public thought because he could only see the UK in Europe. Having agreed to a referendum he then took a kicking for a whole host of reasons not all to do with Europe more about how disadvantaged people felt about Tory austerity. He polarised the whole debate into stay or go.

Much as I don't l like the idea of unellected officials making decisions which are now far more wider reaching than a trading agreement I could have lived with that if it had felt like a more level playing field - the freedom of movement is a real bonus for employers around my area for example. Cameron made me choose; then having not got the result he wanted just walks away to his MPs pension and leaves the rest of us with this cr4p! Just saying I'll. try and keep out of politics now.

[Z4C_er]

As I thought, but worse than I thought......
http://www.westernspring.co.uk/the-coud ... of-europe/
The upshot is, we voted out, we want out, now crack on!

[Jembo]

As I thought, but worse than I thought......
http://www.westernspring.co.uk/the-coud ... of-europe/
The upshot is, we voted out, we want out, now crack on!

Not as unknown as you may think, as sits behind the Star Trek & Federation theme.

Given the Vikings, Celts, French, Romans & God knows who else has raped & plundered our Mother land over many millennia, I struggle to sometimes understand the small Island mentality we can do everything alone - just look at the German supermarket that removed all foreign goods from the shelves in an experiment... was empty.

We’re one insignificant dot in an incomprehensibly big Universe... & people are still arguing over their birthright patch, rather than working out how to collaborate to make things better

[Nanu]

The question is: how willing is the EU prepared to lose the UK as both a customer and a financial contributor?

Would agree but you have to take into account that they don't want us to leave and be successful. If we are other countries will follow suit leading to a break up of there cosy club. The people doing the negotiating don't have to face an election so they are not fazed by the EU suffering economically. All they want is the status quo to continue as long as possible

[john-e89]

The question is: how willing is the EU prepared to lose the UK as both a customer and a financial contributor?

Would agree but you have to take into account that they don't want us to leave and be successful. If we are other countries will follow suit leading to a break up of there cosy club. The people doing the negotiating don't have to face an election so they are not fazed by the EU suffering economically. All they want is the status quo to continue as long as possible

Agree with that, we’re the first to break away from the stronghold that suits them very nicely, and as you say once one makes a break away others will look very seriously about following.