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DSLR Cameras + Drones

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Post by tomscott » Mon Feb 12, 2018 1:14 pm

Lance wrote: Mon Feb 12, 2018 12:06 pmTom, some great shots there :thumbsup:

The green #12 car with the old boy looking down pit lane is a cracking shot!
Thanks! One of my all time faves :)

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Post by jimmybell » Mon Feb 12, 2018 1:18 pm

I do like the idea of on-the-go uploading type setup, especially when travelling. I kinda wanna document any decent stuff in to flickr and instagram, and it's much easier to have the motivation for such in near-real time rather than taking 1000 shots and spending 2 eveningsd processing them to come out with 10 nice ones :D
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Post by pvr » Mon Feb 12, 2018 1:22 pm

jimmybell, I use a 5DMK3 and my son the 5DMKIV. The IV has the nice features of GPS and WiFi that I don't have but that is all really that I would miss.

The 50 is a nice lens and that is used a lot for filming as it gives the depth of field very nicely.

Other than that, I use the 16-35, 24-105, 70-200 and 100-400.

It does weigh a ton, so I have a backpack from LowePro with the big padded support strap around the waist so I can swivel it around to my front to change the lens without having to put the whole lot down.
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Post by tomscott » Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:46 pm

jimmybell wrote: Mon Feb 12, 2018 1:18 pmI do like the idea of on-the-go uploading type setup, especially when travelling. I kinda wanna document any decent stuff in to flickr and instagram, and it's much easier to have the motivation for such in near-real time rather than taking 1000 shots and spending 2 eveningsd processing them to come out with 10 nice ones :D
There is quite a good workflow now. You can star rate as you go and if you have an iphone or ipad you can do a full edit with the raw file. Make an local network connection import using a star filter and import only those images to work on.

Really nice way of working compared to how you used to have to work.

Works the same with a laptop too if you use a compact laptop like a 12" macbook it also works really well and you can use the proper suite of apps.

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Post by jimmybell » Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:02 pm

Is that workflow something you can do with the 7DMKII and the 80D? Thinking about it - something like that should actually be quite high on my priority list, i tend not to get as much spare time for processing as i used to.

I'm inclined to go for one of those two for now (with 18-135+nifty50+70-200L), get back snapping and upgrade to whatever is the FOTM FF body later in 2018 if i feel i want it.
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Post by hopz121 » Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:04 am

Id go for an 80D with the 17-55mm Lens instead of the 18-135 :) its optically soo much better.
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Post by tomscott » Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:49 am

jimmybell wrote: Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:02 pmIs that workflow something you can do with the 7DMKII and the 80D? Thinking about it - something like that should actually be quite high on my priority list, i tend not to get as much spare time for processing as i used to.

I'm inclined to go for one of those two for now (with 18-135+nifty50+70-200L), get back snapping and upgrade to whatever is the FOTM FF body later in 2018 if i feel i want it.
The 7DMKII has GPS but no wifi, it also has DPAF (autofocus in video) but no touch screen so it renders it a bit useless as the whole point is having control but you cant control it quickly without a touch screen. To get around this you can buy the apple SD or USB to lightning adapter which also work fine and are small so dont take up much room in the bag but obviously its not as 'easy' as just connecting via wifi. Canon also offer a wifi adapter for the 7DMKII. It basically a wifi chip built into an SD card.

https://www.parkcameras.com/p/1080001E/ ... gKobfD_BwE

Its the oldest camera on the list and was released in Dec 2014 so is lacking a few of the newer features. If its sports there isnt anything apart from the 1DXMKII that can touch it for speed and AF capability. Apart from the AF, FPS build and button layout the 80D is a better all round camera camera. The XXD and 6DMKII have no AF joystick selector instead have a multi controler built into the image select wheel. Whereas the 7DMKII has the same layout as the 5D series with a joystick and AF mode selector switch which makes operation much quicker and they have the better build quality. They are designed to be used together so its easy to go from one to the other.

The 80D is currently a better camera, has a better sensor and isnt far behind in FPS. It also has WIFI and GPS so you can use the above editing workflow for getting images out quickly. The controls are subjective. If you arent used to either body style coming from a XXXD then both will be new, the 80D may be easier to pick up as it shares similar button layout and controls to the entry level bodies with more options for advanced users.

If you feel like going full frame is inevitable in a short period of time then I would just go FF, for the extra 800-1000 it saves headaches down the road of selling gear to upgrade and loosing money and the faf of doing so. TBH i know it sounds stupid but adding a crop body is cheap in comparison, the 80D can be had to like £579

https://www.e-infin.com/uk/item/2911/ca ... _(kit_box)

or a 7DMKII £729

https://www.e-infin.com/uk/item/2382/ca ... _body_only_

When you consider that is almost a 1/4 the cost of a 5DMKIV its a lot of camera for the money and adding one wont break the bank. On the other hand DSLRs are heavy and carrying two for casual shooting is certainly dedication lol.

For casual shooting I always grab the lightest most usable camera and that ends up being the 6DMKII which is basically a full frame 80D.

The new crop cameras are fantastic and I think you will be more than happy with any of the options. Full frame is amazing and is my choice but for casual shooting the cost of the crop cameras are hard to beat and I really enjoy using my 7DMKII. To get a similar system with a 5DMKIV your looking at at least twice the cost.

Another thing to bare in mind is the 7DMKIII is due for release later this year and usually the XXD would be released first but this year I think it might be the other way round.
hopz121 wrote: Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:04 amId go for an 80D with the 17-55mm Lens instead of the 18-135 :) its optically soo much better.
Also true, I have both and the 18-135 has a great range and is a pretty sharp lens for the range 28-215mm equivalent, the 17-55mm is the sharpest lens in the EF-s line up and offers a decent walk around solution but can be a bit short 27-88mm. Depends whats more important ease of use or best sharpness and aperture.

Nothing is perfect which is the reason I have so much gear use different gear for different situations, whether is for work or for casual shooting. The nice thing about not using the pro stuff is you blend it a lot more, I stick out like a sore thumb most of the time.

Walk around a city with a 70-200mm white lens and you get a lot of unwanted attention.

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Post by jimmybell » Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:27 pm

So - perhaps its easier to identify the downsides to an 80d + 18-55 + nifty50 + 70-200 setup, rather than pick based on various upsides to a range of generally stellar kit these days (if most decent bodies can at least attempt most things). Probably look to move to whatever replaces the 6D next year.
  • Faff of upgrading to FF later (though id probably not buy FF until 6DMKIII appears anyway, it seems like thats what im after but doesnt yet exist)
    Loss of IQ vs FF
    Difficulty in getting wider angles with APS-C
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Post by tomscott » Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:44 am

Well that’s it most are mid cycle or toward the end of cycle.

The 6DMKII was realised July 2017 and is on a 3-4 year cycle it is essentially an entry level FF camera and the only one canon offers so I wouldn’t expect too much in the short term as the 6DMKII was essentially a parts bin special. The 5DMKIV is half way through but the 5DSRMKII Is probably going to arrive this year if not early next year but is very specialist compared to the IV. 80D and 7DMKIII will be replaced in the next year.

It’s hard work being a canon user they offer the best lenses but their bodies are lacking if you look at it on paper. The issue is the decisions for production, like cars are made 2-3 years previous so it doesn’t really matter what happens with the competition they are on their own path.

In practise it’s not quite as cut and dry. The 6DMKII on paper doesn’t look impressive but really is a fun camera and offers a huge amount in a small and cheap package. It has all the things canon stand for it’s very stable and relaiable and is a work horse and offers as much as most people will ever need. But it’s not the best, one of those things what do you need in a camera.

Like I said your in a great position because you technically don’t have to buy into a canon system but there are positives and negatives to having every system as we have spoke about and these companies leap frog each other all the time. So next year canon might have made the best camera on earth and all the Nikon and Sony guys will look over envious... just round and round.

It’s an uneasy time, Nikon has been on the verge of bancrupsy, have had lots of manufacting issues and recalls, hence why they are offering the d850 with every piece of technology known the man to try and get people back. Same with Sony they have something to prove in the market. They are the new kids on the block and are trying to lure people away but really the buying trends aren’t showing that this is having much effect.

Canon are still no1 in sales although they are playing the game much more carefully, just doing what is needed rather than really innovating. I think they are waiting for the mirrorless technology to get to a point they could make a reliable good product for professionals which will then make its way down the line.

Which isn’t like canon as they always were no1 but the market is shrinking at an alarming rate, sales are down 80% compared to 2010.

What pros need and what amateurs want are two different things. Sony mirrorles are hard to justify for a pro because they aren’t reliable, the viewfinders are slow and the battery life is all over the place but the technology is incredible. For a pro you can’t have those sort of compromises. Reliability is key, any pro can do the job with almost any gear within reason but if the product doesn’t inspire confidence or can’t be relied on it means nothing.

An amateur can get away with slow downs or products having shortfalls like the above but if it’s your bread and butter it’s a different story. I generally think this is the trend, I don’t see many pros going mirrorless because the tech isn’t there yet. DSLRs are so well established and are so well developed it’s hard to be innovative.

Interestingly the lack of canon innovation hasn’t gone unnoticed and this was posted today which sort of shows the back and forth considerations people are having.

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=34491.0

Tbh it’s best not to worry too much and just buy and enjoy by the time you buy something new comes out. With the Crop cameras they are such good value it’s easy to justify and keep their value. Simply because canon is like clockwork always releasing cameras in 2-4 year cycles.

Stolen from a post on CR:

The fact is, right now every system offers something the others don't, and none of them are bad. It's basically impossible now to buy a dud body or an under-performing lens. Some systems give you more cutting-edge functions, but those same systems are also the ones with the more lacking fundamentals. Some systems may only give you the basics, but they do so at a very high quality and/or backed up with better service.

Pretty much sums it up.

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Post by tomscott » Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:34 am

This is worth watching



Really shows what i meant about the 5DMKIII being poor at shadow recovery always noisy loads of banding and purple casts. None of that with the 80D.

Can do much worse than the 80D :thumbsup:
Last edited by tomscott on Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by original guvnor » Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:41 am

I have a 600d but recently also added a 5d Mk IV which I love, I have a 24-70 F4L (which is great - it has IS and is a lot cheaper and lighter than the 2.8L version and is probably a much better bet for most amateurs because you probably won't use the extra stop of light that a 2.8 has very often but you'll always be glad of the IS). I also own a 70-200 2.8L MkIi, 1.4 TC and a nifty fifty (the cheapo F1.8 version). A 16-35 F4L will be next when funds allow. For large zooms - I have rented the Sigma Sport 150-600 which I thought was incredible, I took some fantastic shots with it. Probably the best super telephoto lens at sensible money (£1.1k). It's big, heavy and you wouldn't want to hand hold for very long but it's worth a go and at the moment if you use Lenses For Hire it can be rented for a long weekend for £25.

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Post by tomscott » Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:12 am

original guvnor wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:41 amI have a 600d but recently also added a 5d Mk IV which I love, I have a 24-70 F4L (which is great - it has IS and is a lot cheaper and lighter than the 2.8L version and is probably a much better bet for most amateurs because you probably won't use the extra stop of light that a 2.8 has very often but you'll always be glad of the IS). I also own a 70-200 2.8L MkIi, 1.4 TC and a nifty fifty (the cheapo F1.8 version). A 16-35 F4L will be next when funds allow. For large zooms - I have rented the Sigma Sport 150-600 which I thought was incredible, I took some fantastic shots with it. Probably the best super telephoto lens at sensible money (£1.1k). It's big, heavy and you wouldn't want to hand hold for very long but it's worth a go and at the moment if you use Lenses For Hire it can be rented for a long weekend for £25.
Weekend rentals are definitely worth looking at, Calumet (which is now WEX) does 3 days for the price of one over the weekend I think. Completely agree on the F4 with IS over the 2.8. Mine never get used unless im working, but I do like the extra reach of the 24-105.

Got some lovely kit OG :thumbsup: get some pics posted :D

Definitely agree on the Sport its so heavy need a monopod to use it comfortably really. The 100-400mm MKII is smaller, lighter, faster, better AF and IS and is sharper with a 1.4x converter than the sport is at 600. The 100-400 is also awesome on a crop camera its super sharp. The canon with a 1.4 is about £500 more but worth it I think.

The digital picture is a good resource if your looking for lenses. They have a lens comparison chart that you can select the most recent crop or FF cameras and compare the image quality of both. Obviously every lens isnt the same but they usualy have 2-3 copies you can look at and gives a good idea what sort of quality you will get.

https://www.the-digital-picture.com/Rev ... &APIComp=2

Used the 100-400mm on the 5DMKIII and 7DMKII and got some great images traveling and tested it out with the 1.4 on the 6DMKII when I got it and it gets some pretty amazing results.

I was miles away here and here is the native and a crop + 100% crop.

ImageLyme Park Red Deer by Tom Scott, on Flickr

ImageLyme Park Red Deer by Tom Scott, on Flickr

ImageLyme Park Red Deer by Tom Scott, on Flickr

Amazing how much detail it retains and could still be printed at A3, couldn't do that back in the day! The 40Ds output was less than A3 with the full image :rofl:

If you can fill the frame its even better

ImageFallow Deer, Dunham Massey, Cheshire by Tom Scott, on Flickr

ImageFallow Deer, Dunham Massey, Cheshire 100% Crop by Tom Scott, on Flickr

Really really love the 100-400 and if you like the 70-200 you will love that too.

One of my faves from traveling but with the 7DMKII

Image

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Post by original guvnor » Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:46 am

Thanks Tom :thumbsup:

Lovely images as per usual! I'll post a couple I took with the Sigma/600d combo when I'm home and can access them on the external hard drive.

Funnily enough I was going to rent a 100-400mm as my next hire because it's 50% off on all orders in Feb at Lenses for Hire and I've used them a couple of times now and I think they offer a really good service. You don't have to use it in Feb, just order it. I'm planning on going to BTCC at Donington in April and I thought I might take it there. Plus, I can try the 100-400 with my 1.4TC too (560mm with the 5D but 896mm on the 600d). I love wildlife photography so it would be ideal for that. I did think about hiring the 400mm F5.6L prime, which is ridiculously good value for money, but its not compatible with the TC of course. You can even hire the 800mm F5.6L for £115 for 3 days (you actually get 4 days because they deliver pretty early the day before the hire starts)!

If I was starting out with Canon now and not ready for FF I think I would definitely be looking at 7DMkII or 80D. Great cameras for the money. But I might wait for 7DMkIII to surface if I wasn't in a rush. If I was eventually planning to go 5D then I'd definitely choose 7D MKII for the reasons you mention (same layout and buttons, compliment one another etc.)

Having said that, if I didn't already have Canon stuff I think Nikon would've been more tempting than they were when I first started buying kit. They've released some fantastic bodies in the last couple of years.

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Post by tomscott » Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:32 pm

Thanks OG :thumbsup:

Definitely worth a go with the 100-400mm the only problem is you will want one! :D

The 400mm F5.6 L will work fine with a 1.4x the MKIV it is group F with then MKIII 1.4 extender under the AF guidelines allowing 61 points of AF and all the group AI servo modes. It is optically excellent but almost identical to the MKII 100-400 but you get the zoom which is more usable.

The more length you have the more difficult it is unless freezing action. Panning with 900mm is almost impossible especially with no IS much easier with 200-300mm. If you can get close to track-side, the 100-400mm is excellent because it has the horizontal panning IS mode and you can use the FF camera over the crop with its much better AF.

600mm is the sweet spot really. The tele-converters work much better on FF cameras because they are more forgiving than the smaller high density crop cameras. I like that on the 7DMKII the 100-400mm is 640 its perfect for almost everything.

ImageFish Eagle, Chobe National Park, Botswana by Tom Scott, on Flickr

Although the crop cameras take the 1.4 the same issues apply its just a little bit too far and the images do get soft.

Image

Took this one as I physically couldn't get closer, good in a pinch but not really ideal but I got the image. Its not particularly sharp but at the end of the day a pic is better than no pic. When its hot anything over 600mm gives you atmospheric issues with heat rising so was useless most of the time in africa and kept the bare lens on most of the time.

For wildlife you can never have enough so its definitely worth sticking it on crop with the 1.4, works well in the UK as long as there is enough light for the F8 :thumbsup:

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Post by original guvnor » Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:49 pm

Here's a few images from the Sigma 150-600. This was on the 600D so APS-C sensor. The Forum software downgrades the image quality quite a bit from the original JPEG. The raw files look even better.
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IMG_4592.JPG (386.68 KiB) Viewed 962 times
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IMG_4584.JPG (355.63 KiB) Viewed 962 times

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