Panic buying fuel again

PerryGunn · Post by **PerryGunn** » Mon Sep 27, 2021 11:37 am

I didn't say that Brexit hasn't had an effect on the number of HGV drivers working in the UK but it's misinformative to infer that it's the sole cause.

The haulage industry estimates that there's a 100k shortage of drivers, from Flyingfifer's stats above there's been a net loss of approximately 13.4k EU drivers - taking those figures, Brexit may have accounted for up to 13.4% of the current driver shortfall. This may have been enough to turn a 'just about coping' situation into a 'shitstorm' situation but the straw that broke the camel's back is never the sole cause of its fractured spine.

It's a problem that seems to have been building for years, there aren't many people who want to spend days on the road, sleeping in a truck cab, away from friend & family. It probably won't go away until fully automated trucks are allowed on the roads.

PerryGunn · Post by **PerryGunn** » Mon Sep 27, 2021 11:45 am

Zulu4 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 27, 2021 11:31 am A more balanced view here:
https://www.thegrocer.co.uk/supply-chai ... 41.article

That's more in line with my understanding of the situation - Brexit is not the root cause of everything bad that happens.

Flyingfifer · Post by **Flyingfifer** » Mon Sep 27, 2021 12:04 pm

PerryGunn wrote: ↑Mon Sep 27, 2021 11:37 am I didn't say that Brexit hasn't had an effect on the number of HGV drivers working in the UK but it's misinformative to infer that it's the sole cause.

The haulage industry estimates that there's a 100k shortage of drivers, from Flyingfifer's stats above there's been a net loss of approximately 13.4k EU drivers - taking those figures, Brexit may have accounted for up to 13.4% of the current driver shortfall. This may have been enough to turn a 'just about coping' situation into a 'shitstorm' situation but the straw that broke the camel's back is never the sole cause of its fractured spine.

It's a problem that seems to have been building for years, there aren't many people who want to spend days on the road, sleeping in a truck cab, away from friend & family. It probably won't go away until fully automated trucks are allowed on the roads.

Agreed, I didnt mean to suggest it was the sole reason but I do think it is probably a primary one, the gov have shoved covid to the front as a sort of shield for the truth. Covid is undoubtedly a contributing factor but the lions share of the damage to the already precarious situation came from brexit.

The automated trucks thing is interesting and again I agree but it creates this weird limbo where young people wont want to go into HGV driving because its entirely possible that within 20 or 30 years they will be automated and out of a job yet right now we are desperate for them.

Mr Grumpy · Post by **Mr Grumpy** » Mon Sep 27, 2021 12:51 pm

It is not just that younger people don't want to become LGV drivers. There is a huge backlog of driving tests for lower age group and DVSA have just completed a recruitment drive for 40 extra LGV examiners, but they won't be trained before Christmas. The Government are also allowing Army Examiners to conduct tests on the public to try and bring down the huge waiting lists. Also DVLA are extremely slow processing Provisional licences for LGV entitlement at the moment. All applications require a medical examination completed by a doctor and drivers over 45 have to have a medical every 5 years. Doctors often make errors on these forms or forget to 'tick a box' and the forms are returned by DVLA after possibly 5 weeks, for the form to be corrected and returned for another 5 week wait. DVLA blames Covid and staff shortages for these problems. A problem with this and a problem with that, has created the mess we are in today. I have heard today that the Government is sending out letters to all LGV drivers who have not renewed licences, to ask them to go back into the industry.
Out of interest all LGV and PCV drivers must have 35 hours Driver CPC training every 5 years. A driver may hold an LGV licence but if he/she has not done any Driver CPC training they will have to pay for that themselves. That means 5 days classroom training or online training for 7 hours per day. They will also need a digital Tacho card from DVLA at a cost of £32.

Southwestz4 · Post by **Southwestz4** » Mon Sep 27, 2021 2:23 pm

Does anyone know a person who works for the media ....get them to run a story saying z4's are dying out and ours will be worth a mint

enuff_zed · Post by **enuff_zed** » Mon Sep 27, 2021 2:37 pm

Southwestz4 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 27, 2021 2:23 pm Does anyone know a person who works for the media ....get them to run a story saying z4's are dying out and ours will be worth a mint

I don't want a tailback on my drive thank you very much!
Or the cost of a security guard every night!

inkey$ · Post by **inkey$** » Mon Sep 27, 2021 3:21 pm

: Screenshot 2021-09-27 at 15.19.36.png (310.75 KiB) Viewed 397 times

pvr · Post by **pvr** » Mon Sep 27, 2021 3:28 pm

IR35 - unbeliievable tax to destroy any industry

Thrustyjust · Post by **Thrustyjust** » Mon Sep 27, 2021 8:15 pm

With regards to standard driving tests, we got my son a driving test in January to take for last week, so almost October. The backlog is just immense. Thankfully he passed as I would dread to think of getting a retest . Theory tests last only 2 years, which seems reasonable but in the current climate learners might have to resit that again.

R.E92 · Post by **R.E92** » Mon Sep 27, 2021 9:34 pm

IR35 had been bad for most industries. It's typically not something that people are aware of as it's only talked about in niche outlets.

I personally have chosen to work less as a result of IR35 and I know a lot of others who are doing the same. It's just not worth getting out of bed when you have to pay income tax on your entire earnings. Higher rate income tax combined with NI and the business costs incurred when working away from home mean that you end up being much more selective when taking on projects. It was designed as a cash grab but I think it's backfired on them.

This fuel shortage is actually getting pretty serious. All but 1 station that I passed on the way home tonight was closed. How can anyone commit to a long journey at the moment unless they have enough fuel for the entire trip? If business were struggling with staffing before, they are going to be f***ed now.

Thrustyjust · Post by **Thrustyjust** » Mon Sep 27, 2021 9:48 pm

I did manage after passing 3 empty stations to find one with some this evening, although limited to £35 , meant we have a car we can use now than a static ornament on the drive. I must have been the only one without fuel, as the drive to work in our little car this morning , which had fuel, the whole world were hammering at speed on the A roads, like it wasnt an issue..................

TitanTim · Post by **TitanTim** » Tue Sep 28, 2021 8:19 am

A little gutting in your panic to fill up

https://amp.theguardian.com/business/20 ... wrong-fuel

Tim.

Crazy Harry · Post by **Crazy Harry** » Tue Sep 28, 2021 8:34 am

R.E92 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 27, 2021 9:34 pm IR35 had been bad for most industries. It's typically not something that people are aware of as it's only talked about in niche outlets.

I personally have chosen to work less as a result of IR35 and I know a lot of others who are doing the same. It's just not worth getting out of bed when you have to pay income tax on your entire earnings. Higher rate income tax combined with NI and the business costs incurred when working away from home mean that you end up being much more selective when taking on projects. It was designed as a cash grab but I think it's backfired on them.

This fuel shortage is actually getting pretty serious. All but 1 station that I passed on the way home tonight was closed. How can anyone commit to a long journey at the moment unless they have enough fuel for the entire trip? If business were struggling with staffing before, they are going to be f***ed now.

This. I hold HGV1 and PSV1 and until a few months ago; when it ran out an ADR for most things that go bang when you put a match to them - I kept these licences current as a 'plan B' whilst I did other things and tried other enterprises. But; having retired early from doing other things I did agency driving work for a couple of years as my own company - my wife retired early and also did agency work (in her chosen field) via the company. We cut down working before Covid and are lucky that we can manage with our pensions. Now I could ring the agency and be in a truck tonight but why should I risk crossing a tax bracket threshold and buggering my tax affairs around when I don't have to? I haven't avoided tax - my company paid all the tax that was due; as did I if I took a dividend. I can't be the only one thinking that its not worth getting back behind the wheel - and I certainly don't want a full time job!

.... and that's without the other rubbish; firms trying to get me to tramp around and 'camp out'; night time road closures; crash for cash; finding a gap in a lay by to have a break or stop for a pee and the modern favourite - make a one hour delivery slot at a supermarket distribution centre despite the traffic or risk getting turned away!

Bah humbug - its time the consumer paid the going rate to get things delivered. The whole system has been trimmed to the bone and drivers were the point where costs were saved - hence many driving as their own 'company' but always at the same place. I fear this is the wake up call.

pvr · Post by **pvr** » Tue Sep 28, 2021 9:11 am

Just to add to the IR35 item for those that are not aware of it. This is a 20 odd year old tax law that they have modified to make it even more evil. It is relating to "deemed" employment, i.e. "they" (HMRC) decides that you really should be employed by the person you work for.

They use the strange example that for example a freelance nurse should not earn more than an NHS employed nurse, which is completely rubbish of course as the freelance nurse does not get sick pay, have to provide for their own pension, have to look for their own jobs wherever etc. The same applies to HGV drivers and any other industries.

Up till recently, the self employed person decided that they were outside of the IR35 scope and worst case, they would lose a tax case. The new implementation of the law means that the employer is now also liable for tax, and worst part, retrospectively. This has killed a huge section of employment, be it in the oil and gas industries where the vast majority of people are self employed due to their specific knowledge they transfer to diferent customers.

Nobody in the banking sector will employ self employed people anymore as they will not underwrite the liability risk that in 20 years time they get a retrospective tax bill, and the same applies to the current HGV crisis as the self employed drivers are not going to work at a tax rate that puts them on equal pay as an employed person, but without the benefits.

BeeEmm · Post by **BeeEmm** » Tue Sep 28, 2021 9:40 am

Crazy Harry wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 8:34 am This. I hold HGV1 and PSV1 and until a few months ago; when it ran out an ADR for most things that go bang when you put a match to them - I kept these licences current as a 'plan B' whilst I did other things and tried other enterprises. But; having retired early from doing other things I did agency driving work for a couple of years as my own company - my wife retired early and also did agency work (in her chosen field) via the company. We cut down working before Covid and are lucky that we can manage with our pensions. Now I could ring the agency and be in a truck tonight but why should I risk crossing a tax bracket threshold and buggering my tax affairs around when I don't have to? I haven't avoided tax - my company paid all the tax that was due; as did I if I took a dividend. I can't be the only one thinking that its not worth getting back behind the wheel - and I certainly don't want a full time job!

.... and that's without the other rubbish; firms trying to get me to tramp around and 'camp out'; night time road closures; crash for cash; finding a gap in a lay by to have a break or stop for a pee and the modern favourite - make a one hour delivery slot at a supermarket distribution centre despite the traffic or risk getting turned away!

Bah humbug - its time the consumer paid the going rate to get things delivered. The whole system has been trimmed to the bone and drivers were the point where costs were saved - hence many driving as their own 'company' but always at the same place. I fear this is the wake up call.

Would you consider taking an employed role with return to base within same day. Your LGV C+E with ADR is quite sought after at the moment and wages are high?

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