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Tyre brand advice please

Alloy wheels and tyre discussion
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Nigel-Z4
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Re: Tyre brand advice please

Post by Nigel-Z4 » Thu Feb 09, 2012 7:11 pm

I know what you mean, Finisteer, about BMW's party line etc. But Performance Tyres in Huntingdon said I was mad even considering it, unless I was going to change the suspension too.

Borrowing a set of wheels would be impossible, wouldn't know where to start. I think I'd have more look finding somebody with a 3 litre Z4 with non run-flats who might be happy to take me out in there car for 15 minutes. As long as I'm not crass by calling them a dick first ;)

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Re: Tyre brand advice please

Post by wegras » Thu Feb 09, 2012 7:17 pm

gannet wrote:
Nigel-Z4 wrote:I think all run-flats are like bricks regardless of brand, model; it is the nature of the wall of the tyre.

It is interesting that the Potenza RE050A none run-flat version is no longer available; they discontinued it.
and how many brands have you based that on??

OEM Bridgestone's were admittedly shite and dangerous, which is why I switched to Michelin's PS2 ZP tyres - difference was night and day, like riding on normal tyres.

not many people on here believe me though - hey ho :evil:
I do mon ami .............I have just ordered a set ,from my Dealer , who virtually matches Micheldever tyres in price

I am really hoping you are right :D
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Herminator
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Re: Tyre brand advice please

Post by Herminator » Thu Feb 09, 2012 7:18 pm

And here's me reading it as you mocking me and backing up Nige :oops:
The internet is wide open to interpretation. As is the info dealers give out. They told me the wheels wouldn't take non-runflats. A tyre fitter explained it as runflats won't fit an ordinary rim but regular tyres on a runflat rim was fine.

All I know is there's a huge amount of experience on here with using regular tyres on the original Z4 and it all seems to be positive.

Luckily with my car I don't have the decision to make 8)
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Re: Tyre brand advice please

Post by Nigel-Z4 » Thu Feb 09, 2012 7:31 pm

I'm almost inclined to take gannets advice and look at replacing the rear two (which are getting close to legal limit) with the Michelin PS2 ZP run-flats. Well, PS3 anyway as the PS2 have just been discontinued, PS3 is the replacement.

My front tyres are Goodyear and a Bridgestone, and are like new. So in a thousand miles, I'll replace my worn rear ones with the PS3 ZP run-flats and see if that half helps, then when the front need it in 20,000 I'll match all for with two more PS3 ZP's

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Re: Tyre brand advice please

Post by Finisterre » Thu Feb 09, 2012 7:37 pm

Herm - sorry about that-- :)
It would be nice to have an M but as it is we have a space saver in the boot and the difference in comfort makes it well worth while.
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Re: Tyre brand advice please

Post by Ewazix » Thu Feb 09, 2012 7:46 pm

BMW are not allowed to recommend or fit anything other than OE kit. Full stop. Owner at my local tyre outlet runs his BMW on non RFTs. Loads of users on here report their car being positively transformed by a move away from the OE Bridgstone RFTs, there is no issue with fitting non RFTs. I switched to Falkens and agree that the side wall gives a little more, so turn in is a little less crisp, but it don't bounce all over the place or tramline like a bitch any more. Fair swap in my book.

If I could justify the cost I would go for the Michelin RFTs, if not the Falkens 452 suit the car very well, the Goodyear Eagle F1A and the Vred' are well liked by many Z4 owners and I'd be happy with either, whatever you choose I'd get the original Bridgstones off. Let us know how you get on :thumbsup:
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Re: Tyre brand advice please

Post by Nigel-Z4 » Thu Feb 09, 2012 7:59 pm

Good points Ewazix. I only considered none run-flats as my rear two are nearly at the end of their life. But the front two are as new. And yes, I was thinking price as two run-flats are £600 and four non are £500.

The tramlining is not a big deal for me, I have got used to it. But the bouncing, or should I say, bumping, around all the bloody time does my head in. Whenever I see those 'count down' lines in the road coming up to a roundabout I have on occasion said out loud to myself 'hold onto your knickers' in preparation for having vertebrae dislodged in my spine.

Are the Michelin PS2 Z2 run-flats REALLY just as comfortable as something like the Falken's?

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Re: Tyre brand advice please

Post by codeandroad » Thu Feb 09, 2012 8:02 pm

I'm buying a set of Goodyear F1 Assymetric 2s for my Z4. Previously I had these fitted to my Abarth and they were much quieter than the Pirelli P Zeros. Great in the wet and dry too. Worked really well on track.

They also have a protective lip which helps prevent kerbing.

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Re: Tyre brand advice please

Post by codeandroad » Thu Feb 09, 2012 8:13 pm

Nigel-Z4 wrote:Finisterre, I don't know my stuff, but, erm, let me think, erm. THREE BMW DEALERS DO!!! dick.
I was chatting to a BMW service manager the other day and mentioned that I am thinking about fitting non run-flats to my Z4. He agreed that it is a reasonable idea but that I should check that it is acceptable to my insurance company.

3-1 then.

Oh well there's always Goodyear run flats.

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Re: Tyre brand advice please

Post by rookie975 » Thu Feb 09, 2012 8:31 pm

Nigel-Z4 wrote:Have decided against this after much research over past week.

The main reason is that I spoke to two people on the phone I know who also own Z4 cars. One changed to non run-flat tyres and said the handing is a bit questionable after doing this, he is a professional driver.

Fact is, the Z4's that come with run-flats have softer suspension; something has to give. So by putting non run-flat tyres, everything is a little bouncy and handing becomes a trifle wayward.

You can specify a non run-flat Z4 when ordering a new one. BMW then use different suspension and settings to reflect this fact.

Realistically, you should only change to non run-flats if you are going to change the entire suspension system and have the car sorted in every other way so it maintains correct driving characteristics.

If you just want to ponder around with a soft ride it is fine, but if you want to grab it by the scruff and point it and have fun, forget it; you'll lose handling and more.

So I'm going to accept the somewhat hard ride and stick with run-flats.

I want to test drive the new shape Z4 as the iDrive system has suspension settings from what I can gather.

As ever, thanks for all the input, without which, I would not have been able to come to my conclusion.

Oh, it wasn't just BMW who told me this, a few independent sources also informed me of the scientifics.
This is an interesting discussion and the above are interesting comments. I would be interested to hear the Scientifics mentioned by the independent sources? The independent tyre supplier I used today have changed many run flats to non run flats as many BMW owners felt the run flats were terrible!

Today I took my car in to have all the run flats (Bridgestone RE050A) with non run flats (Kumho Ecsta KU39's). The run flats were all still legal with plenty of tread left, but I simply could not live with that ride any more. In my opinion the Bridgestone run flat tyres were terrible. They were stupidly hard and uncomfortable. That in turn made the car feel very jumpy and skittish over rough surfaces leaving you with little confidence at times. I can't comment on other run flats as I have never used them. After the last set of run flats I never will...

First of all it is interesting that some "experts" I spoke to about changing from run flats to non run flats told me that a run flat rim could not accommodate a non run flat tyre. That is clearly nonsense. Obviously you have been told by 3 BMW dealerships that the suspension is set up for run flat tyres. Now this is probably true to a certain extent, but to suggest that putting non run flat tyres on the car will somehow make the handling dangerous is really a load of nonsense as well. I would be asking these "experts" exactly why putting a non run flat tyre on a Z4 is "playing a risky game". If that were true, there would probably not be two suspension options available on a Z4 (sport and standard). One of these setups is harder than the other, yet both setups were sold by BMW with run flat tyres. Not to mention the different profile tyres provided on different size wheels. The ride characteristic of a 16" alloy with a higher profile is very different indeed to the characteristic of an 18" alloy wheel with a lower profile tyre, yet again BMW sold the Z4 from the factory with different size alloys on the same suspension setup. This would not be possible if the suspension was sensitive enough to be perfect for a run flat tyre yet risky on a non run flat. I would suggest that the difference between an 18" run flat tyre and an 18" non run flat tyre not hugely different to a higher profile 16" run flat tyre against a lower profile 18" run flat tyre.

I can safely say that putting non run flats on my Z4 is one of the best things I have done to my car. The ride has been transformed, there is no more banging and crashing around over bumps and surface imperfections and everything feels much more civilised. There is no more skittishness I experienced on the run flats. The car feels much more planted and stable on the road and the tyres are much quieter. I can't think of a downside at the moment (I have purchased a BMW mobility kit to combat punctures); in fact I think my car is actually safer on the non run flats due to the increased stability. If you read around in this forum you will find that many, many Z4 owners have also got rid of their run flats and commented on the improvements felt.

BMW will always say that you have to use run flats as that is the official line. I understand why you may want to continue using run flats because of the advice you have received. However to dismiss non run flats when so many owners are using them in the real world with no ill effects at all would be a shame as you really are missing out on a much improved driving experience...
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Re: Tyre brand advice please

Post by Nigel-Z4 » Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:17 pm

rookie975

Yes, there are two suspension settings. The Z4 is set up for the regular setting, if you switch in the sport one, it is even harder; which is fine. You would not find a suspension setting that went the reverse to sport i.e 'soft as hell ride', which is what you are doing with non run-flats.

I agree, the ride is total s**t with Bridgstones, skittish as hell and I hate it. Trust me, I want to fix this, but I can't ignore three BMW dealers saying it is a little risky as the handing characteristics change. I don't want to come off a roundabout and accelerate like hell before the car is truly off the bend (like I do) only to have the back end do a bloody waltz all over the road because the tyres are not designed for the car. I imagine the insurance company would say a big f**k you when it comes to paying out for my car, which I just rolled.

And yes, I know the characteristics of higher profile tyres are 'slightly' different. But nowhere near as different as run-flat vs. non run-flats. Compare apples for apples, please. What you are talking about is not even the same sport.

When you say "I would suggest that the difference between an 18" run flat tyre and an 18" non run flat tyre not hugely different to a higher profile 16" run flat tyre against a lower profile 18" run flat tyre. "

I have to disagree, this is just your theory, and not scientific.

I agree with your last paragraph totally. I don't want to dismiss non run flats, especially as you make them sound so darn horny; I want, I want. But I'm just thinking insurance her, and of course Mr BMW saying, NO WAY!!!

FFS, Now I'm totally confused.

If I go back to my tyre dealer to get this done, he will take my money and say "I think your mad mate".

I do want a nicer ride though as bits of cabin trim are going to start dropping off it I carry on with these sodding Bridgestone things.

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Re: Tyre brand advice please

Post by gannet » Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:23 pm

Nigel-Z4 wrote:Good points Ewazix. I only considered none run-flats as my rear two are nearly at the end of their life. But the front two are as new. And yes, I was thinking price as two run-flats are £600 and four non are £500.

The tramlining is not a big deal for me, I have got used to it. But the bouncing, or should I say, bumping, around all the bloody time does my head in. Whenever I see those 'count down' lines in the road coming up to a roundabout I have on occasion said out loud to myself 'hold onto your knickers' in preparation for having vertebrae dislodged in my spine.

Are the Michelin PS2 Z2 run-flats REALLY just as comfortable as something like the Falken's?
I can only speak of my experience re OEM Bridgestone vs Michelin PS2 ZP... I took a big gamble when I switched - everyone on here was shouting switch to non-runflats, but I didn't want to have to think about tyre goo/spare tyre etc. Swallowed hard and put the Michelin's on. Backing out of the tyre garage and down the dropped kerb I noticed the difference immediately - more give while still being firm. Drove the short distance home with a smile :)

We then went out shortly after with mrs gannet in the passenger seat, backed out of the drive, again down the dropped the kerb - mrs gannet's face was a picture - and she normally cannot tell any difference between different tyres :D She couldn't believe the difference. The Bridgestone used to send a jolt through the car over every bump, the michelin's simply didnt. The bridgestone's used to tramline all over the place, the michelin's simply didnt - ever. Expansion joints on motorway bridges were alot more comfortable.

No denying that they are expensive though :o However factor something else into the equation...

When I bought the car it had 2 new rears tyres fitted by the dealer, fronts were about 3/4 worn. I covered just 10k before all four needed to be replaced. On the michelin's I'd covered a further 17k before the rears needed replacing... fronts were still going with about 4mm of tread when I sold the car, them having covered 23k. So yes they are expensive but they last a darn sight longer.

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Re: Tyre brand advice please

Post by BSVA » Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:26 pm

Everyone has opinions and I'm no different. The original Bridgestones were no doubt the biggest piece of crap tires. It did its job when I got a puncture in one of the tires. I was not in a position to pull over or even stop when this happened. So when it was time for replacement tires, I looked to the Michelin PS2 ZP's, took a chance and was glad I did. It was like day and night to the originals. No more tramlining or hard bouncing...gone. Michelins are pricey, but well worth it to me. I also like the confidence that if I get a puncture, I can continue to a safer place. Now I can't say anything about non run flats because I never experienced it. So as I said...just my opinion.
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Re: Tyre brand advice please

Post by wegras » Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:26 pm

BMW are not allowed to recommend or fit anything other than OE kit

True my Dealer Tyre Specialist has ordered Michelin ZP for me and in whispered tones agrees I will find significant improvements over RE050s but can only recommend the ONLY Z4 BMW approved tyre for the Z4
which is of course is the Bridgestones
I may even have to sign a disclaimer :cry: but who cares :thumbsup:
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Re: Tyre brand advice please

Post by aquazi » Thu Feb 09, 2012 10:30 pm

Well the rear springs on my snapped under 18K miles.. so clearly the OE suspension wasnt designed for any sort of tyres.. let alone run flats :roll:

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