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Matching tyres

Alloy wheels and tyre discussion
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Post by Tyreman » Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:34 pm

MACK wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:29 pm Seeing as your already into a new pirelli p zero I'd just match up the others. Now you've got a bit of time hopefully you won't be into £180 a corner and can get a better deal elsewhere, especially as you'll be buying three. The only issue I've ever really had with the pirellis is nothing to do with handling or grip, its they just never seem to last as long as equivalent Goodyear or michelins.
The argument against premium tyres that is often spouted "I don't drive it hard enough to justify the cost" just does not stack up for me. First of all a lot of folks who buy mid range have never bought premium so arent really in a position to offer a compariable opinion. Of course mid range is good enough to them, its all they've ever experienced.
But the main deciding factor for me isnt the handling, it's the braking distance. At the end of the day most of us drive on fast roads at some point and invariably the premium tyres offer the best stopping distances, particularly in the wet. For me I'd rather put a bit extra into the tyres than have a bump and be sat there thinking "I wonder what would have happened if I hadn't bought mid range tyres."
The difference in braking distances between products can be quite scary...........hence the introduction of the E.U. tyre label in 2012 :o

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Post by sp3ctre » Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:39 pm

Totally agree with you guys, wouldn’t be buying crap tyres. I consider the P Zero to be premium, just not my choice. Not much in stopping distance between that and the Goodyear/Michelin... Main gripe was wear rate and noise, but the Kuhmos were noisy anyway.
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Post by MACK » Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:44 pm

Tyreman wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:34 pm
MACK wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:29 pm Seeing as your already into a new pirelli p zero I'd just match up the others. Now you've got a bit of time hopefully you won't be into £180 a corner and can get a better deal elsewhere, especially as you'll be buying three. The only issue I've ever really had with the pirellis is nothing to do with handling or grip, its they just never seem to last as long as equivalent Goodyear or michelins.
The argument against premium tyres that is often spouted "I don't drive it hard enough to justify the cost" just does not stack up for me. First of all a lot of folks who buy mid range have never bought premium so arent really in a position to offer a compariable opinion. Of course mid range is good enough to them, its all they've ever experienced.
But the main deciding factor for me isnt the handling, it's the braking distance. At the end of the day most of us drive on fast roads at some point and invariably the premium tyres offer the best stopping distances, particularly in the wet. For me I'd rather put a bit extra into the tyres than have a bump and be sat there thinking "I wonder what would have happened if I hadn't bought mid range tyres."
The difference in braking distances between products can be quite scary...........hence the introduction of the E.U. tyre label in 2012 :o
Totally agree.
I might not drive it like I stole it but I do want it to stop well. 😀
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Post by Tyreman » Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:58 pm

sp3ctre wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:39 pm Totally agree with you guys, wouldn’t be buying crap tyres. I consider the P Zero to be premium, just not my choice. Not much in stopping distance between that and the Goodyear/Michelin... Main gripe was wear rate and noise, but the Kuhmos were noisy anyway.
PZeros are premium, no issues there at all :)

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Post by MACK » Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:28 pm

Tyreman wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:58 pm
sp3ctre wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:39 pm Totally agree with you guys, wouldn’t be buying crap tyres. I consider the P Zero to be premium, just not my choice. Not much in stopping distance between that and the Goodyear/Michelin... Main gripe was wear rate and noise, but the Kuhmos were noisy anyway.
PZeros are premium, no issues there at all :)
Agreed, like spectre said, in terms of performance they're a great tyre, it's just the wear rate etc I dislike.
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Post by Mr Tidy » Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:17 pm

I put a pair of P Zeros on the back of my 325ti and I've never had a problem with them. (It already had P6000s on the front).

They've done 13,000 miles and still have 5mm of tread which doesn't seem like excessive wear to me. I'm very pleased with them.
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Post by brillomaster » Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:25 pm

see, this is what i dont get... according to Evo magazines tyre test, the worst tyre they tested still has 90% of the wet braking performance of the best tyre - and in the dry, that rises to 91%. in the test they state that like its a really bad thing, but generally i'm happy with 90% of the best available! but specifically looking at pirelli p zeros, a falken FK510 stops better... which is definitely a mid range tyre. kumhos are easily a match for hankooks and falkens, so really dont think they'll be that bad, especially on a car that isnt driven hard. on a car that has sporting credentials that you might actually be driving quickly you might need the extra 10 percent because you're going everywhere 10% faster, but surely a bit of defensive driving, leaving a good sized gap and being aware of other cars on the road will reduce your risk of a collision more than premium tyres.

http://www.evo.co.uk/volkswagen/golf-gti/18309/best-car-tyres-evo-performance-tyre-test/page/0/2

i actually think that where premium tyres are worth more is not in wet or dry braking per se, but that a michelin will still be going after 20,000 miles whereas a cheaper tyre will be worn out in 10,000.

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Post by Tyreman » Sat Feb 17, 2018 11:26 am

brillomaster wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:25 pm see, this is what i dont get... according to Evo magazines tyre test, the worst tyre they tested still has 90% of the wet braking performance of the best tyre - and in the dry, that rises to 91%. in the test they state that like its a really bad thing, but generally i'm happy with 90% of the best available! but specifically looking at pirelli p zeros, a falken FK510 stops better... which is definitely a mid range tyre. kumhos are easily a match for hankooks and falkens, so really dont think they'll be that bad, especially on a car that isnt driven hard. on a car that has sporting credentials that you might actually be driving quickly you might need the extra 10 percent because you're going everywhere 10% faster, but surely a bit of defensive driving, leaving a good sized gap and being aware of other cars on the road will reduce your risk of a collision more than premium tyres.

http://www.evo.co.uk/volkswagen/golf-gti/18309/best-car-tyres-evo-performance-tyre-test/page/0/2

i actually think that where premium tyres are worth more is not in wet or dry braking per se, but that a michelin will still be going after 20,000 miles whereas a cheaper tyre will be worn out in 10,000.
The idea behind the EU tyre label is to offer a level playing field of testing and allow the consumer to make an informed decision.

The differences between the label grades are well publicised but if we were to take the grades A and C it's widely reported that in wet braking at 50mph the improvement seen by the driver is a shorter braking distance of 7 metres........I'm sure that most of you would think that it's an improvement worth having. In addition if you were unfortunate enough to have an accident it's likely that your impact speed would be reduced considerably :thumbsup:

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Post by MACK » Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:27 pm

Tyreman wrote: Sat Feb 17, 2018 11:26 am
brillomaster wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:25 pm see, this is what i dont get... according to Evo magazines tyre test, the worst tyre they tested still has 90% of the wet braking performance of the best tyre - and in the dry, that rises to 91%. in the test they state that like its a really bad thing, but generally i'm happy with 90% of the best available! but specifically looking at pirelli p zeros, a falken FK510 stops better... which is definitely a mid range tyre. kumhos are easily a match for hankooks and falkens, so really dont think they'll be that bad, especially on a car that isnt driven hard. on a car that has sporting credentials that you might actually be driving quickly you might need the extra 10 percent because you're going everywhere 10% faster, but surely a bit of defensive driving, leaving a good sized gap and being aware of other cars on the road will reduce your risk of a collision more than premium tyres.

http://www.evo.co.uk/volkswagen/golf-gti/18309/best-car-tyres-evo-performance-tyre-test/page/0/2

i actually think that where premium tyres are worth more is not in wet or dry braking per se, but that a michelin will still be going after 20,000 miles whereas a cheaper tyre will be worn out in 10,000.
The idea behind the EU tyre label is to offer a level playing field of testing and allow the consumer to make an informed decision.

The differences between the label grades are well publicised but if we were to take the grades A and C it's widely reported that in wet braking at 50mph the improvement seen by the driver is a shorter braking distance of 7 metres........I'm sure that most of you would think that it's an improvement worth having. In addition if you were unfortunate enough to have an accident it's likely that your impact speed would be reduced considerably :thumbsup:
To be honest i dont think the evo article is really relevant to the discussion here, in that its a group test of the premium tyres where the margins between them are small. Not a test of premium vs mid range vs budget. The average driver would be happy with the performance of any of the tyres evo tested.

At the end of the day even 1 meter makes all the difference. Good defensive driving helps but still doesnt prevent idiots doing stupid things in front of you. What about when someone simply doesnt see you and pulls out right in front of you from a side road for example. All the defensive driving in the world isn't going to save you (unless your planning on taking it to extremes and doing 10mph past every side road you pass, even in national speed limit areas etc) but tyres with shorter stopping distances just might.
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Post by mr wilks » Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:40 pm

Here's a conundrum re stopping distances :wink: at which point does choice of vehicle overtake the choice of tyre for those looking to be supersafe on the roads re wet grip / dry grip / stopping distance
ie will a lighter weight car (such as a Z4 ) stop in a shorter distance on mid range rubber than a larger car (such as a 5 series ) would on premium rubber ?
Is a Golf R (awd) on cheapo rubber actually safer than a 3 series estate on premium rubber ?
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Post by MACK » Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:52 pm

mr wilks wrote: Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:40 pm Here's a conundrum re stopping distances :wink: at which point does choice of vehicle overtake the choice of tyre for those looking to be supersafe on the roads re wet grip / dry grip / stopping distance
ie will a lighter weight car (such as a Z4 ) stop in a shorter distance on mid range rubber than a larger car (such as a 5 series ) would on premium rubber ?
Is a Golf R (awd) on cheapo rubber actually safer than a 3 series estate on premium rubber ?
I was waiting for someone to post something along these lines😃
I did actually think someone was going to post " so we all need to go and spend £1,000s on six pots then!"
For me I'm not that obsessed with braking distances I let it be the deciding factor in what car I buy. but I'm prepared to stump up a little more for good tyres for the extra benefits they bring.
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Post by Steve84N » Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:01 pm

I'd bet tyres make more difference than which car you're in comparing most average ones.
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Post by BMWZ4MC » Sun Feb 25, 2018 9:01 pm

It’s not just stopping distances, but how well vehicle dissipates the energy of an impact. Better to spend more of a fixed available budget on a newer, better designed car and accept there’s less money left for tyres than it would be to buy an older, less robust car and spend more on tyres...

The tyre comparison I read before buying tyres for my RS4 found that GY Eagle Assymetric 3s performed better in both wet and dry than the premium competitors tested but with similar fuel economy and noise. Performance was the most important consideration for me as it is a car that’s driven hard at times. I’ve been very pleased - the grip levels are outstanding wet and dry and the car is perfectly quiet on all but concrete motorways*.




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