7 Degrees Celcius - Oh No !

Alloy wheels and tyre discussion
User avatar
Ducklakeview
Lifer
Lifer
Posts: 5649
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2016 4:08 pm
Location: Merseyside

7 Degrees Celcius - Oh No !

Post by Ducklakeview » Tue Nov 07, 2017 4:21 pm

mmm-five wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 3:22 pm
I've only ever had summer tyres on my Z4MC.

Not had a problem with it in cold/light snow, nor running around the Nurburgring at 2ºc. BUT, I will take it easy and will constantly check levels of grip by braking & accelerating in a straight line. This morning was 3ºc when I left (5am) and the car didn't do any lairy slides coming out of the drive, or around roundabouts.*

Image

Image

Image

Ice is another matter and even winter tyres won't help out there - unless you're using studded tyres.

However, if the weather looks terrible (i.e. more than an inch of snow) then I'll take the Alfa over the Zed any day - although only due to the risk of someone else ploughing into me in the snow/ice - as the Alfa's worth buttons.

The Alfa runs Michelin Cross-Climates all year round (which is what they're designed for).

* although I'm not sure the car liked the early start after a week of driving at the Ring, as it got 30 miles before getting into a tizz and pulling all electrical power. Had to slowly shuffle across 4 lanes of the M6 to the hard shoulder with no engine or electrical power (no indicators, brake lights, hazards, headlights either).
Where were you Tony?

Mike

Jamesw
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 32
Joined: Mon Jul 31, 2017 6:28 pm

7 Degrees Celcius - Oh No !

Post by Jamesw » Tue Nov 07, 2017 5:28 pm

Continental TS860 Winter tyres and alloys went on today too

[IMG]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/150x10 ... kUyBRZ.jpg[/IMG]
Z4 Coupe, 58 plate, black, love it :driving:

User avatar
Pbondar
Member
Member
Posts: 204
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2017 10:37 am
Location: Scottish Borders

7 Degrees Celcius - Oh No !

Post by Pbondar » Tue Nov 07, 2017 6:15 pm

Jamesw wrote:
Tue Nov 07, 2017 5:28 pm
Continental TS860 Winter tyres and alloys went on today too

[IMG]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/150x10 ... kUyBRZ.jpg[/IMG]
Ditto
Attachments
2017-11-06 14.23.16.jpg
2017-11-06 14.23.16.jpg (160.79 KiB) Viewed 240 times
2017-11-07 11.42.36.jpg
2017-11-07 11.42.36.jpg (243.61 KiB) Viewed 240 times
2017-11-07 11.45.19.jpg
2017-11-07 11.45.19.jpg (351.4 KiB) Viewed 240 times
https://vgy.me/O38FpW.jpg
2012 MY E89 2.0i (Atacama Yellow, 17" ProRace 1.2 Wheels, rear spoiler, remapped to 280BHP, LCI side repeaters, rear/side badge delete)

mmm-five
Lifer
Lifer
Posts: 9858
Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2008 1:03 pm
Location: Liverpool
Contact:

7 Degrees Celcius - Oh No !

Post by mmm-five » Tue Nov 07, 2017 6:55 pm

Ducklakeview wrote:
Tue Nov 07, 2017 4:21 pm
Where were you Tony?

Mike
1st one was at my overnight hotel stop in Slough on the morning that I'd planned to drive around all the dealerships who'd service my new Z4MC...to get them to stamp the service book that the supplying dealer had misplaced.

2nd one was the same day at a dealer in Cow Roast, Tring. I was lucky as they were about to close up shop for the day as half their staff couldn't get in.

The 3rd was outside the hotel at the Ring in November 2015 - was on track less than 30 minutes later after scraping the car and warming it up on the drive to the track (one of the reasons we don't stay right next to the track is so that we get a 15 minute, gentle drive to warm up the car).
Now over 156,000 miles...Individual Ruby Black, Individual extended champagne leather, plus many options
Image

Jamesw
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 32
Joined: Mon Jul 31, 2017 6:28 pm

7 Degrees Celcius - Oh No !

Post by Jamesw » Wed Nov 08, 2017 9:46 pm

What tyre pressure are people using on Winter tyres, specifically I’ve dropped the tyre size on my coupe to 17/245/45 (non run flat) and struggling to find any correct info
Z4 Coupe, 58 plate, black, love it :driving:

User avatar
Steve84N
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 1668
Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2015 1:00 pm

7 Degrees Celcius - Oh No !

Post by Steve84N » Tue Nov 28, 2017 2:06 pm

Paulr wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 6:11 pm
The tread on winter tyres is also designed to throw snow out of the depth of the tread - summer tyres tend to hang on to compact snow in the treads so they get even worse, particularly when they snow gets iced in the treads as well.
This is a widely held belief that is completely incorrect. In fact the opposite is true...

Winter tyres are designed to hold onto snow, partly in deeper, wider grooves (which are better at displacing more water) but mostly within the small sipes across all the tread. Rubber on snow has very little grip but snow on snow grips pretty well. If you don't believe me try sticking a piece of rubber to snow and then try it with snow (it's how a snowball works).

Here is a picture to demonstrate the difference. The visible tread that is contacting the surface with a summer tyre is just rubber (having usually filled the grooves with snow) whereas the winter tyre has snow hanging off it all over.

Image

All season tyres are not much better in snow/ice than summer but notably poorer the other 90% of the time so in our climate are kind of pointless. I take the gamble of not being able to drive in snow and stay on summer tyres because they work alright on 364 days of the year. One day I may actually bother having two sets of wheels with winter tyres on one, but until I have a car with a big surplus in power over grip it's not really needed.

Interesting piece on winter vs all season: http://www.bmwblog.com/2014/11/26/seaso ... nter-test/ Note the winter tyre holding a lot more snow than the all season, which is not really any better than a summer for tread pattern, just the compound being a bit softer.
C63 AMG Estate 6.2l

User avatar
Paulr
Member
Member
Posts: 761
Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2016 3:46 pm
Location: Tunbridge Wells

7 Degrees Celcius - Oh No !

Post by Paulr » Tue Nov 28, 2017 4:49 pm

Didn't know that, I was always told the wider gaps in the grip was to throw the snow out - like mud tyres do. What you say makes sense though.

Never to old to learn, eh!
If you try and take a cat apart the first thing you have is a non working cat.

User avatar
Steve84N
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 1668
Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2015 1:00 pm

7 Degrees Celcius - Oh No !

Post by Steve84N » Tue Nov 28, 2017 6:00 pm

To be fair most journalistic articles are wrong and state that the tyres are designed to clear snow.

Winter tyres are better at dispersing larger volumes of water.

The reason they are worse when it's warmer is because the tread moves around too much and wears out faster. There is something called the glass transition temperature which is the point where the molecules of the rubber move notably more or less either side of that point. That point is lower for winter tyres so they remain more elastic when it's colder.

However, if you go too far the other way then the molecules move too much which causes the accelerated wear. Summer tyres with their higher transition temperature don't move enough when cold but consequently stand up better to 'heated use' when grip is good.
C63 AMG Estate 6.2l

User avatar
Ewazix
Lifer
Lifer
Posts: 3537
Joined: Sun May 02, 2010 5:30 pm
Location: Somerset

7 Degrees Celcius - Oh No !

Post by Ewazix » Wed Nov 29, 2017 5:51 pm

The highly respected Auto Bild have published their latest 'all season' tyre review,

http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/20 ... e-Test.htm

Michelin CrossClimate (which I have on one of my cars) "As good as a summer tyre on dry roads, short wet braking distances, low rolling resistance"
Goodyear Vector 4 Seasons 2 "Almost as good as a winter tyre in the snow, very short wet braking distances, very quiet and comfortable"

Tyrereviews shoot out https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNuqGUgbcIk

http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/Is ... nd-out.htm

"All three non-summer tyres outperformed the summer tyre in both snow traction and braking by a huge margin"
2003 2.5SE, low miles, Sterling Grey, black leather, Colour coded 108's & Eagle F1A2, no stubby here! French fries intact, unmolested.

User avatar
earthdweller
Member
Member
Posts: 329
Joined: Tue Apr 11, 2017 9:05 pm

7 Degrees Celcius - Oh No !

Post by earthdweller » Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:46 pm

Was out yesterday (Sunday) for a drive round the Dales

-3 when I set off

For the first 20 miles or so the Pirelli PZero’s felt like concrete and had absolutely zero grip

Once they had warned up they became more pliable and started to grip but I stil had to tread with care

My other car has Dunlop Wintersports on it ., the difference in them in the cold is night and day
07 3.0si Sport Roadster Titanium Silver/Syrah Blue Individual Leather,

User avatar
mcbeee
Lifer
Lifer
Posts: 3198
Joined: Tue Nov 10, 2009 3:13 pm
Location: French Creek, Vancouver Island

7 Degrees Celcius - Oh No !

Post by mcbeee » Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:45 pm

Just a comment re tread wear on winter tires.
I had a set of Blizzaks ( a superb winter tire) on the back of my M3. Why, is a long story better told in a bar. Put them on in July, I drove the M3 all summer and through the winter and found the tire wear to be reasonable, probably the same as Michelin PS’s. I was surprised as I believed they would melt away on hot summer roads. They were so good in the winter that it is my tire of choice for winter here in Canada.
Sold the Boxster, now I have a Z4 M Roadster and a 911 Carrera S
8) 8) 8)

User avatar
buzyg
Lifer
Lifer
Posts: 10741
Joined: Fri May 20, 2011 6:11 pm
Location: Cornwall

7 Degrees Celcius - Oh No !

Post by buzyg » Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:37 pm

earthdweller wrote:
Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:46 pm
Was out yesterday (Sunday) for a drive round the Dales

-3 when I set off

For the first 20 miles or so the Pirelli PZero’s felt like concrete and had absolutely zero grip

Once they had warned up they became more pliable and started to grip but I stil had to tread with care

My other car has Dunlop Wintersports on it ., the difference in them in the cold is night and day
Another out early Sunday. On the un-gritted minor roads of Dartmoor, there were some proper treacherous patches of ice. Not helped by the sun just poking it's head over the horizon and straight in my face. Had a few interesting moments. One in particular, at about 5 mph, were it was obvious the Zed was going to be sliding down a frozen section of road towards a bend. Just had to ease on to it, slide across to the dry tarmac on the other side and hope nothing came around the corner, up the hill during those few heart stopping seconds.

Then, after my walk, heading back in the evening twilight as the road was refreezing, the back was twitching on every other corner. I don't think I've ever driven like such a granny in my life before. I love a nice granite wall as much as the next man, but there are times I wish they were made of cheese. :D :driving: :thumbsup:
Image

User avatar
dhobbs
Member
Member
Posts: 767
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2012 5:33 pm

7 Degrees Celcius - Oh No !

Post by dhobbs » Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:35 am

I have winter tyres on just in case.
Also means my summer wheels are nice and clean in the garage. Not too worried about the 103s used over winter with the salt.
3.0si roadster. Requisite stubby. Sound gen mod. LED numberplate lights. LED boot strip. Interior lights LED too. Dension. ZHP gearknob. Daily drive :driving:
Motor in boot now! Bilstein b12 kit now fitted.

User avatar
Ethicsgradient
Member
Member
Posts: 84
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2016 10:19 pm

7 Degrees Celcius - Oh No !

Post by Ethicsgradient » Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:57 am

Spent some time working in Russia, did a winter out there. Studded tyres not only mandatory but absolutely essential. But they are great, certain rules in Russia that you dont have to worry about there as here such as clean readable number plate and speed as the rental Audi far out paces a Russian cop car so boot down and charge on. Roadside check where they wave you down with the orange baton... Ignore em boot down they don't chase they just wait on an easier target. We did hundreds of miles ton up across solid ice and snow and the studs kept everything in line and fine.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests