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Oil level warning?

Guitarman
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Oil level warning?

Post by Guitarman » Wed Aug 04, 2021 11:17 am

Hi guys, while driving the oil level warning comes on saying it is below minimum level. However when I stop and get it to measure the oil level the level shows as Max and OK on the display?
So now I'm confused! Is there a way to check the oil level manually?
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Pbondar

Oil level warning?

Post by Pbondar » Wed Aug 04, 2021 12:52 pm

There is no manual method of measuring the oil level.

When was the last oil change ? Time / distance?

Probably the most accurate statement will come after a 10 to 15 mile trip whilst underway…

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Oil level warning?

Post by Busterboo » Fri Aug 06, 2021 9:13 pm

Guitarman, if you don't have a flat surface at home, drive the car until it's up to temperature, then nip into a petrol station, the concrete of which will be as flat as makes no matter, and, with the engine running, measure the oil. Simples, isn't it?
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ronk
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Oil level warning?

Post by ronk » Fri Aug 06, 2021 9:19 pm

The system does not measure interim levels - It shows max then when iy needs a litre it goes to MIN.
Apparently this was to help to save overfilling mistakes.
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Oil level warning?

Post by Smartbear » Fri Aug 06, 2021 9:22 pm

ronk wrote: Fri Aug 06, 2021 9:19 pm The system does not measure interim levels - It shows max then when iy needs a litre it goes to MIN.
Apparently this was to help to save overfilling mistakes.
Mine does, i changed the engine oil & it was a little below max-it didn’t request a litre though & after i topped it off with a small amount (250ml or so) it returned to max :thumbsup:
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Oil level warning?

Post by ronk » Fri Aug 06, 2021 9:37 pm

That’s how it should be In my opinion - I like to keep an engine properly filled - a full litre down isn’t really acceptable in my book.
The Service Dept assured me that on my model the sudden drop from max : min was all in order
(2016 - 35is)
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Pbondar

Oil level warning?

Post by Pbondar » Fri Aug 06, 2021 9:52 pm

This extract may help….. :thumbsup:





Oil Sensor Purpose:
The N-series engines in the E9X all use VANOS, which is a camshaft timing system to vary the timing of valve operation dependent upon engine load (power) requirements. VANOS is operated by relatively constant oil pressure in conjunction with varying oil volume flow though computer controlled solenoid-operated oil control valves. To insure proper operation of VANOS, the engine computer needs to determine the level of the engine oil, which is why the engine has an oil level sensor. The primary purpose of the oil level sensor is for the VANOS system, rather than to just notify the driver of the engine oil level. The e-dipstick is an adjunct function of the oil level sensor even though it offers the driver convenience of reviewing engine oil level from the driver’s seat. The oil level sensor operation is not well understood by most owners, and appears to give faulty readings, which is why owners suspect its reliability.

Oil Sensor Design:
The sensor design is quite simple. It uses a dual stack of concentric-ring capacitors to determine the oil quality (contamination level) and oil level. Dual stacked means one capacitor is on top of the other capacitor. Capacitors are an electrical device normally used to store electrical energy for short periods to provide electric devices with short bursts of electrical energy when needed. Capacitors use a dielectric material to store the electrical energy; for the BMW sensor, engine oil is the dielectric material; the BMW oil sensor uses the electrical-design theory of the capacitor as a measurement device rather than an electrical energy storage device. The oil sensor, called “OZS” by BMW, uses the lower capacitor to measure the oil quality and the upper capacitor is used to determine the oil level. The sensor measures the dielectric value of the oil against a dielectric constant (value) to determine the contamination level of the oil. The upper capacitor uses the value (amount) of the capacitance in the upper capacitor based on the amount of oil present to determine the engine oil level. Concentric-ring means the design of the capacitor stores the oil in between conductors of the capacitor to determine the dielectric value of the oil (imagine a small pipe inside a larger pipe with oil in between the two pipes). There are small openings at the top and bottom of the OZS housing that allow engine oil to slowly pass through the capacitors. There is very little to mechanically or electrically to break in a capacitor, which makes the BMW oil sensor device highly-reliable. For the OZS to correctly measure the oil, the temperature of the oil must also be known, so there is an oil temperature sensor built into the bottom of the OZS.

E-Dipstick Operation:
Mechanical dipsticks are direct-read devices, meaning the level of the engine oil in the crankcase is directly determined by presence of oil on the dipstick. The e-dipstick is not a direct-read device; it takes data and data analysis to determine the oil level, which also means it takes time to determine the oil level. To get an accurate oil level reading the oil must be at operating temperature (one of the reasons the OZS has a temperature sensor built into it), and the engine must have been in operation for a minimal time period and gone through a series of operational parameters to ensure oil has moved throughout the lubrication system while the engine is running. The engine operating temperature must reach and be above a minimum of 140 deg. F. Engine speed must have reach greater than 1,000 RPM, and the engine must have reached acceleration levels transverse (side to side) and longitudinal (forward) of greater than 12 – 15 feet per-second squared. It takes about 5 minutes to reach these parameters in normal driving and the e-dipstick will not provide a measurement until such time, which is why if the engine is cold, a small clock symbol appears in the e-dipstick window and no reading is provided. Once the time and other parameters are met, the e-dipstick updates to a new level reading. The engine computer then continuously monitors the oil level and updates the e-dipstick display every 20 minutes, which means you can only get a new level reading after every 20 minutes of continuous driving.

The Confusion:
This is where the problem occurs with oil filling of the E90 N-series engines. Most owners don’t understand the e-dipstick doesn’t immediately update the oil level measurement (as a mechanical dipstick does). The e-dipstick reports only the top-level quart of oil, meaning it only shows how much of the 7th quart of oil is in the engine. The bar graph, which is analogous to the upper and lower marks on a mechanical dipstick, is just 1-quart long, so if the bar graph shows halfway between MIN and MAX the engine is missing just 1/2-quart of oil (i.e. not 3.5 quarts). If after an oil change and complete refill of the engine crankcase (7 quarts), if the engine is still above 140 deg. F (or soon does reach 140), but the engine has not gone through the full 5-minute time period of reaching the operational parameters, if the oil level is read, the e-dipstick will report the last known oil level. So if you changed the oil when the engine was, for example ¾-quart low, the e-dipstick will still read ¾-quart low even if you added the full 7-quarts of new oil. Conversely, if you top off the engine when it is not a full 1-quart low, say again at ¾-quart low, and then immediately read the oil level, it will still show ¾-quart low. This gets confusing to owners, because they don’t trust the oil sensor and don’t understand how it works, so they will add more oil and overfill the engine; I had a good friend, who is a very experienced DIY’er, do this exact scenario and blow the front crankseal of his son’s N52. This is also why, if you read the owner’s manual, it tells you to only add 1-quart of oil to the engine only after the CBS notification (“+1QT”) appears in the information display; if you add the quart and then immediately check the oil level, it will still show 1-quart low.

So as an owner of an E9X with the N52/54/55 engine, when changing the oil, or topping off, you must allow the e-dipstick at least 20 minutes to provide an update to the previous engine oil level. Also, you do not need to keep the engine oil level at MAX. Allow the engine to consume the 7th quart of oil and only add replacement oil at 1-quart increments to top off the oil level as notified by the CBS. Add the 1-quart of top-off oil within 125 miles of receiving the "+1QT" notification.

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Oil level warning?

Post by flybobbie » Fri Aug 06, 2021 10:25 pm

My N52 on iDrive display seems to go down in 1/4 litre steps.
10k miles burns 1 litre, but i now change every 5k, so never bother topping off.
Is there danger direct injection engines could "water down" the oil effecting the density reading on the capacitor detectors.
Cold oil due being thicker could read high but lower when warm less dense in the sensor and of course any circulation.

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Oil level warning?

Post by ronk » Fri Aug 06, 2021 10:32 pm

A dipstick was so much simpler!
You don't stop playing when you get old - You get old when you stop playing!
So I bought a 35is with all the toys to play with. :thumbsup:

Pbondar

Oil level warning?

Post by Pbondar » Fri Aug 06, 2021 10:34 pm

flybobbie wrote: Fri Aug 06, 2021 10:25 pm My N52 on iDrive display seems to go down in 1/4 litre steps.
10k miles burns 1 litre, but i now change every 5k, so never bother topping off.
Is there danger direct injection engines could "water down" the oil effecting the density reading on the capacitor detectors.
Cold oil due being thicker could read high but lower when warm less dense in the sensor and of course any circulation.
I think BMW have covered most of the bases on this one..the later engines have better oil control than earlier ones so I can’t see this system deteriorating / performing worse with newer generations of engines..

Pbondar

Oil level warning?

Post by Pbondar » Fri Aug 06, 2021 10:35 pm

ronk wrote: Fri Aug 06, 2021 10:32 pm A dipstick was so much simpler!
So was a single cylinder air cooled side valve..

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Oil level warning?

Post by flybobbie » Fri Aug 06, 2021 10:37 pm

I see they are also called oil condition sensors, i think we used to call them "eyes".

Certainly in aviation pulling a dipstick and checking everyday tells you a lot about engine condition.

Pbondar

Oil level warning?

Post by Pbondar » Fri Aug 06, 2021 10:40 pm

flybobbie wrote: Fri Aug 06, 2021 10:37 pm I see they are also called oil condition sensors.
Quite so..explains their condition based service logic on variable time ‘ distance oil changes…

I think every 5k ish / annually is a better bet…Ronk will like that :thumbsup:

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Oil level warning?

Post by Mr Tidy » Fri Aug 06, 2021 10:45 pm

Pbondar wrote: Fri Aug 06, 2021 9:52 pm This extract may help….. :thumbsup:
That's really interesting - thanks for posting it. :thumbsup:

It pretty much sums up my experience in that when the level was getting low I could add half a litre and sometimes do a 30+ mile trip before it registered the top-up! My current 330i also has the N52 engine and it does exactly the same.

Back to old-school dirty fingers with my MC though. :lol:
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Oil level warning?

Post by ronk » Fri Aug 06, 2021 11:35 pm

Pbondar wrote: Fri Aug 06, 2021 10:35 pm
ronk wrote: Fri Aug 06, 2021 10:32 pm A dipstick was so much simpler!
So was a single cylinder air cooled side valve..
And you only had to give the horse hay. :rofl:
You don't stop playing when you get old - You get old when you stop playing!
So I bought a 35is with all the toys to play with. :thumbsup:

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