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Alarming Tyre Wear on Michelin Pilot 4S 35is

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Alarming Tyre Wear on Michelin Pilot 4S 35is

Post by baz-j » Thu Apr 29, 2021 6:10 pm

I had my zed at the dealer today to see if the near side damper/strut could be replaced under the BMW insurance warranty as it had the dreaded slight misting of oil reported as an advisory at the last MOT. The good news is it's getting replaced under warranty and it will be done by Monday - astonished that it could be done so quickly as I only arranged the diagnostic check yesterday.

However, the vehicle check has shown up a horrific problem with one of the tyres which I'd like to get your opinions on. TBH I've had a lucky escape.

I have Michelin Pilot Sport 4S tyres (ie non-runflat) fitted to my 35is, they were bought in August 2017. They've done around 18000 miles.

The tyre wear at the MOT in August showed the n/s/r at 4.5/4.3/4.3mm and o/s/r at 4.5/4.2/4.0mm. I've driven 400 miles since August tops. The diagnostic video came back with the n/s/r at 4mm but the o/s/r was down to 1mm - illegal - on the inside rim with 4mm mid and outer rim. Also the inner rim had torn in not one but two places! See photos.

I've regularly been to the air station to keep tyre pressures in order and not had any untoward pressure readings - just top-ups. I keep the rears at 41 psi.

What could possibly cause this? I asked the BMW service guy about wheel alignment / tracking but he didn't think this was it - I'm not overly convinced. I suppose it could be a defective tyre but it doesn't add up based on 400 miles done since the last MOT.
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Alarming Tyre Wear on Michelin Pilot 4S 35is

Post by Rockhopper » Thu Apr 29, 2021 7:00 pm

41 psi sounds alarming to me although it might be correct but it could also be why they are not wearing evenly across the width (more worn in the middle).

I run mine at 30.

Can’t explain the sudden wear increase though.

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Alarming Tyre Wear on Michelin Pilot 4S 35is

Post by Ole gits rule » Thu Apr 29, 2021 7:07 pm

41PSi also seems high to me high, keep mine at 34 / 35
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Alarming Tyre Wear on Michelin Pilot 4S 35is

Post by flybobbie » Thu Apr 29, 2021 8:10 pm

Looks like pot hole damage, colleagues Merc. tyre just been replaced after mot advised gash in tyre.
Sure you haven't hit pot hole hard and knocked tracking out.

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Alarming Tyre Wear on Michelin Pilot 4S 35is

Post by flybobbie » Thu Apr 29, 2021 8:12 pm

Ole gits rule wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 7:07 pm 41PSi also seems high to me high, keep mine at 34 / 35
I would barely be able to steer my 23i at those tyre pressures, car would wobble all over the place.
I get perfect wear pattern at 38 front and 40 rear. Higher than 40 rear would be very harsh ride.

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Alarming Tyre Wear on Michelin Pilot 4S 35is

Post by Ole gits rule » Thu Apr 29, 2021 8:27 pm

flybobbie wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 8:12 pm
Ole gits rule wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 7:07 pm 41PSi also seems high to me high, keep mine at 34 / 35
I would barely be able to steer my 23i at those tyre pressures, car would wobble all over the place.
I get perfect wear pattern at 38 front and 40 rear. Higher than 40 rear would be very harsh ride.
I think 35 front and 40 rear is recommended - but I am a little lower on the rear and the car runs ok, not certain on wear as only done 3k miles since I picked the car up in Nov.
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Alarming Tyre Wear on Michelin Pilot 4S 35is

Post by mr wilks » Thu Apr 29, 2021 8:31 pm

flybobbie wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 8:10 pm Looks like pot hole damage, colleagues Merc. tyre just been replaced after mot advised gash in tyre.
Sure you haven't hit pot hole hard and knocked tracking out.
Id have to agree :wink: that's not progressive wear , it looks like the tear you get when a low inflated tyre hits a bump & "tears" , similar can happen with a over inflated tyre , you've had 18k out of them , that ain't too bad in a rwd performance car .
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Alarming Tyre Wear on Michelin Pilot 4S 35is

Post by Ole gits rule » Thu Apr 29, 2021 8:49 pm

mr wilks wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 8:31 pm
flybobbie wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 8:10 pm Looks like pot hole damage, colleagues Merc. tyre just been replaced after mot advised gash in tyre.
Sure you haven't hit pot hole hard and knocked tracking out.
Id have to agree :wink: that's not progressive wear , it looks like the tear you get when a low inflated tyre hits a bump & "tears" , similar can happen with a over inflated tyre , you've had 18k out of them , that ain't too bad in a rwd performance car .
18k is good for certain, not expecting more than 12k if I am honest
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Alarming Tyre Wear on Michelin Pilot 4S 35is

Post by Zforbes » Thu Apr 29, 2021 9:02 pm

It looks to me it's a low pressure issue also, they wear quick if you run below 20 psi for a short time.

If you are certain that low pressure hasn't caused this I WOULD NOT be looking to get the 4 wheel alignment done unless you have hit something very hard to cause movement or even a bend on your suspension arms.

That said I would still be looking to correct what had moved prior to an alignment.

First thing I'd be checking are the bushings, can't be done very easy when the car is on the road, needs to be up on a ramp and use a bar to feel any movement that shouln't be there. Any half decent mechanic with a ramp and a bar should be able to locate issues within a few minutes. If so, replace the bush and the tyre then keep an eye on it for uneven wear.

I DON'T agree with 4 wheel alignments as an initial fix, all you are doing is compensating for what is worn, it will continue to get worse cost you another tyre until you ultimately fix the root cause. When you do that the geo set up will need to be put back to where it was before the geo adjustments for had done in the first place.

FWIW I run tyre pressures advised by the manufacturer. It may seem high but wide and low profile tyres need to be run at high pressures to have the road contact the tyre was designed to take :thumbsup:
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Alarming Tyre Wear on Michelin Pilot 4S 35is

Post by mr wilks » Thu Apr 29, 2021 9:14 pm

Zforbes wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 9:02 pm FWIW I run tyre pressures advised by the manufacturer. It may seem high but wide and low profile tyres need to be run at high pressures to have the road contact the tyre was designed to take :thumbsup:
If you owned a Audi or Porsche with similar sized & similar branded tyres you would be running significantly lower PSI than Bmw recommend on some of their cars so who's right ?
Also worth noting the Z4 G29 recommend less PSI than on E89 on similar sized rims ,
41 psi in a 255 30 19 on 9j rim :cry: no thanks
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Alarming Tyre Wear on Michelin Pilot 4S 35is

Post by baz-j » Thu Apr 29, 2021 9:16 pm

flybobbie wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 8:10 pm Looks like pot hole damage, colleagues Merc. tyre just been replaced after mot advised gash in tyre.
Sure you haven't hit pot hole hard and knocked tracking out.
Pothole sounds a plausible cause putting the tracking way out - the camber is it for the rear? Don’t get why the service manager wasn’t entertaining tracking issue though as the nearside tyre is fine. He tried to suggest it could be the age of the tyre... oh that one might have been on the shelf longer than the other one!

Kwik fit have michelin 4s sport at £412 for a rear pair. I’ve read mixed views on whether they can be relied upon to get the tracking right for the zed though.
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Alarming Tyre Wear on Michelin Pilot 4S 35is

Post by baz-j » Thu Apr 29, 2021 9:22 pm

Zforbes wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 9:02 pm It looks to me it's a low pressure issue also, they wear quick if you run below 20 psi for a short time.

If you are certain that low pressure hasn't caused this I WOULD NOT be looking to get the 4 wheel alignment done unless you have hit something very hard to cause movement or even a bend on your suspension arms.

That said I would still be looking to correct what had moved prior to an alignment.

First thing I'd be checking are the bushings, can't be done very easy when the car is on the road, needs to be up on a ramp and use a bar to feel any movement that shouln't be there. Any half decent mechanic with a ramp and a bar should be able to locate issues within a few minutes. If so, replace the bush and the tyre then keep an eye on it for uneven wear.

I DON'T agree with 4 wheel alignments as an initial fix, all you are doing is compensating for what is worn, it will continue to get worse cost you another tyre until you ultimately fix the root cause. When you do that the geo set up will need to be put back to where it was before the geo adjustments for had done in the first place.

FWIW I run tyre pressures advised by the manufacturer. It may seem high but wide and low profile tyres need to be run at high pressures to have the road contact the tyre was designed to take :thumbsup:
Thanks for that, will get onto the service manager tomorrow morning and ask for the bushings to be checked.
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Alarming Tyre Wear on Michelin Pilot 4S 35is

Post by Busterboo » Thu Apr 29, 2021 9:30 pm

Michelin Pilot 4S have the reputation for quite rapid wear. Here, they're worse than worn, they're illegal and dangerous.

Whatever the pressures, the alignment or any other factors, they shouldn't have been allowed to reach this condition. Shame on you, baz-j.
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Alarming Tyre Wear on Michelin Pilot 4S 35is

Post by Argyll Andy » Thu Apr 29, 2021 9:38 pm

Is that tyre not losing pressure with splits like that?

How much air were you having to put in when you top it up?

Is this the same corner with the goosed shock?

When my MPS4S’s were fitted the garage put 41 in the rears, it was awful, dropped them down to 36 and a totally different handling car afterwards :thumbsup:

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    Alarming Tyre Wear on Michelin Pilot 4S 35is

    Post by Ole gits rule » Thu Apr 29, 2021 9:39 pm

    The OP said the tyres were at 4mil all round at the MOT in August and he has driven 400 miles, not certain what he was supposed to do to stop that rate of wear.

    I check mine once a month but drive 600 to 700 per month miles in the summer - I would not expect to go from over 4mm to 1mm in a month
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