Roof failure

flybobbie
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Roof failure

Post by flybobbie » Sat May 19, 2018 7:36 am

And there is somewhere a video of a Ferrari with what looks like the same roof system as the Zed.
Now realise these folding roofs with hydraulic systems are fairly common, so why such high prices for spares.

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RobbiZ4
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Roof failure

Post by RobbiZ4 » Sat May 19, 2018 7:44 am

Great hit and a correct conclusion.
Way better if you'd identify a much smaller car (i.e. Fiat 500 convertible, Peugeot with folding roofs) with the same part as we are looking for a cheaper solution. :driving:

Here is another one:

Ford Focus 2 CC (Bj. 07-11) DB3
(Ford spare parts)
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Let"s try to identify the manufacturer...


Heureka!

I think, I got 'em: HOERBIGER int the south of Munich, Germany. Will try to contact him right after the public holiday...

http://www.hoerbiger.com/en-0/pages/259
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"Roof drives for hard tops
Pioneering performance with system hydraulics

High speed of movement
High power reserve capacity
Harmonious synchronization

In addition to traditional soft tops, hard tops are becoming more common for convertibles. This is thanks to HOERBIGER. We were one of the pioneers in developing compact high pressure hydraulic drives for hard tops.

We integrate electrohydraulic actuating and control components into reliable system units. Perfectly matched system components, low weight, and minimal space requirements satisfy maximum expectations. Their high speed of movement, power density, and harmonious synchronization properties are outstanding.

Our modular system covers all the functional requirements of both OEM manufacturers and suppliers of the automotive industry specialized in complete roof systems. The modular system contains hydraulic cylinders in a variety of performance levels, with and without sensors, and individually tailored hydraulic power units.
"

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RobbiZ4
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Roof failure

Post by RobbiZ4 » Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:09 pm

In between I've developed and assembled a diagnostic Y-cable to connect between the X200 connector and the Cabrio Top Module (CTM). In addition 3 different plugs:
- blind plug to keep this y-cable permanent connected in the car
- test plug to be able to measure, connect/disconnect each wire of the X200 plug or to bridge(!) each defective microswitch/hall sensor by a wire or resistor
- interface cable (50 to 37 pins) to connect the AD converter

You will find the whole story in German :rofl: (with dozens of pictures) beginning with the following thread:
http://www.zroadster.com/forum/index.ph ... st-2738501


This y-cable was connected to a 16 channel AD converter box (meM-ADfo) from BMCM to document the microswitch and hall senor activities while opening and closing the roof. I was able to analyze in total 10 microswitches and hall sensors in parallel with this cable.

Y-Cable connected to the test plug
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Y-Cable connected between X200 (black plug) and CTM (cyan plug)
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Testing...
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My Z4, the y-cable pulled from the CTM up to the front window, meM-ADfo, notebook
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Last edited by RobbiZ4 on Wed Jul 04, 2018 9:13 pm, edited 10 times in total.

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Pbondar
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Roof failure

Post by Pbondar » Wed Jun 27, 2018 4:47 pm

You are one sad bunny! :rofl:

Either you wire up Hadron Colliders as a hobby, or you have too much spare time or you are grade A1 geek!

Well done! :thumbsup:
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2012 MY E89 20i MSport Auto (Atacama Yellow, 17" ProRace 1.2 Wheels, rear spoiler, Celtic re-map to 280BHP, LCI side repeaters, rear/side badge delete, no whippy here, fully loaded (for its day))

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RobbiZ4
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Roof failure

Post by RobbiZ4 » Wed Jun 27, 2018 6:35 pm

Well, thanks - let's say a bit of everything :oops:

Collected basics for future roof diagnostics:
  • voltage measurements have to be done on a connected X200 plug: all X200 pins 3...12 (hall sensor HS & micro switches MS) to be measured against pin 1 (ground)
  • resistor measurements have to be done on an unplugged X200 between both wires of each MS/HS: pins 3-16, 4-17, 5-18,...!
  • microswitches do have ~560 ohm and 2760 (560+2.200) ohms, depending of beeing pressed or not
  • hall sensors are active components, but do have a passive resistor value of 6,4 k ohm or 104 k ohm dpending on their switching status
  • the CTM always shuts down into a sleep mode after about 10 seconds without any roof activity and about 70 seconds after the last roof activity
  • the CTM wakes up already when opening a door or unlocking the car. Each MS and HS will be connected to their individual voltage supply (X200 pin 16...25) and can be measured even if the roof doesn't work anymore !!!
  • while trying to measure the current voltage of a microswitch, the CTM may shut down and you will measure - nothing!
  • => before each measurment you have to press the unlock button on the car key to wake up the CTM!!!
  • use these diagrams as reference for any future diagnostics when checking wires, hall sensors and microswitches
BMW documentation of the CTM:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/de/e89- ... op-module/
Last edited by RobbiZ4 on Thu Jun 28, 2018 8:44 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Smartbear
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Roof failure

Post by Smartbear » Wed Jun 27, 2018 6:43 pm

That’s brilliant, all that’s left is to commission a small production run of the test plugs & loom and to design a testing app for iOS or android phones....
I’ll have one to get the ball rolling :thumbsup:
Rob
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e89 Sdrive2.0 20i, plenty of mumbo & good economy=the thinking bears z4 :P
e89 Sdrive30i this ones busted, pass me another...
e85 3.0si, i foolishly sold my trouble free car...

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RobbiZ4
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Roof failure

Post by RobbiZ4 » Wed Jun 27, 2018 6:55 pm

Smartbear wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 6:43 pm
That’s brilliant, all that’s left is to commission a small production run of the test plugs & loom and to design a testing app for iOS or android phones....
I’ll have one to get the ball rolling :thumbsup:
Rob
My idea is to keep my first y-cable permanently connected in the car. Right now its plug can be touched from inside the car for any future tests, even when the roof doesn't work anymore.

flybobbie
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Roof failure

Post by flybobbie » Wed Jun 27, 2018 7:34 pm

Trust the Germans to make things complicated...but well done! :thumbsup:

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Smartbear
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Roof failure

Post by Smartbear » Wed Jun 27, 2018 7:54 pm

RobbiZ4 wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 6:55 pm
Smartbear wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 6:43 pm
That’s brilliant, all that’s left is to commission a small production run of the test plugs & loom and to design a testing app for iOS or android phones....
I’ll have one to get the ball rolling :thumbsup:
Rob
My idea is to keep my first y-cable permanently connected in the car. Right now its plug can be touched from inside the car for any future tests, even when the roof doesn't work anymore.
If the roof malfunctions & won’t move, could you force feed the missing o/p or i/p to enable the roof to be stowed or raised?
That could be handy :)
Rob
Image

e89 Sdrive2.0 20i, plenty of mumbo & good economy=the thinking bears z4 :P
e89 Sdrive30i this ones busted, pass me another...
e85 3.0si, i foolishly sold my trouble free car...

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RobbiZ4
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Roof failure

Post by RobbiZ4 » Wed Jun 27, 2018 7:57 pm

Smartbear wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 7:54 pm
RobbiZ4 wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 6:55 pm
Smartbear wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 6:43 pm
That’s brilliant, all that’s left is to commission a small production run of the test plugs & loom and to design a testing app for iOS or android phones....
I’ll have one to get the ball rolling :thumbsup:
Rob
My idea is to keep my first y-cable permanently connected in the car. Right now its plug can be touched from inside the car for any future tests, even when the roof doesn't work anymore.
If the roof malfunctions & won’t move, could you force feed the missing o/p or i/p to enable the roof to be stowed or raised?
That could be handy :)
Rob
Yes, that was the initial idea behind this story. :thumbsup:

Now I'm able to present alternative facts to the CTM to force it to work even with broken wires or microswitches. :rofl:
Last edited by RobbiZ4 on Thu Jun 28, 2018 8:45 am, edited 5 times in total.

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Smartbear
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Roof failure

Post by Smartbear » Wed Jun 27, 2018 8:05 pm

RobbiZ4 wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 7:57 pm
Smartbear wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 7:54 pm
RobbiZ4 wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 6:55 pm

My idea is to keep my first y-cable permanently connected in the car. Right now its plug can be touched from inside the car for any future tests, even when the roof doesn't work anymore.
If the roof malfunctions & won’t move, could you force feed the missing o/p or i/p to enable the roof to be stowed or raised?
That could be handy :)
Rob
Yes, that was the initial idea behind this story. :thumbsup:

Now I'm able to present alternative facts to the CTM to force it to work even with broken wires or microswitches. :rofl:
Good man, now get them on sale chop chop :P
Rob
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e89 Sdrive2.0 20i, plenty of mumbo & good economy=the thinking bears z4 :P
e89 Sdrive30i this ones busted, pass me another...
e85 3.0si, i foolishly sold my trouble free car...

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