Is It Just Me ?

[Nanu]

And remember to use the anti bacteria hand wash stuff after using the pump as the bacteria level on those is the highest that you can get on anything.

Since I have known that, I use the stuff before touching anything in the car again ...

Bloody heck, never thought of that, ill never look at a petrol pump the same again

Do that after visiting the supermarket but never crossed my mind after filling up. Common sense really. Antibacterial hand wipes now in the glove compartment

[mcbeee]

Not just you. It’s even worse when you’ve been merrily filling away for a couple of minutes, perhaps using the “backhand” pump technique and checking social media for the latest fake news, and you realise that the fuel’s been coming out at a rate one litre per decade.

I hope your smart phone is intrinsically safe ( and it won't be ! )

In my career at Shell (in the electrical area), I saw a few vids of idiots with phones and gas fumes...that's why they have labels on the pumps or nearby posts saying turn it off.

Sorry, just a pet peeve of mine.

[flybobbie]

Myth buster did a program about phones and car fumes, never managed to create a fire.
Think they said the first analogue phones were thought to interfere with the pumps.

Interesting edition about static and women drivers though setting themselves on fire.

Aircraft are earthed before refuelling, but we don't do the same with cars?

In the past engineers have climbed into fuel tanks and used the wrong type of torch.

[jamie_z4]

the charcoal canister might be full and need replacement, I know my old e86 coupe definitely needed replacing as it was literally impossible to put in more than 20p at a time in any which position (believe me I had it a year and tried everything)

[MrPT]

Not just you. It’s even worse when you’ve been merrily filling away for a couple of minutes, perhaps using the “backhand” pump technique and checking social media for the latest fake news, and you realise that the fuel’s been coming out at a rate one litre per decade.

I hope your smart phone is intrinsically safe ( and it won't be ! )

In my career at Shell (in the electrical area), I saw a few vids of idiots with phones and gas fumes...that's why they have labels on the pumps or nearby posts saying turn it off.

Sorry, just a pet peeve of mine.

Hah, no worries. I never get my phone out of the cradle when filling up but see people using them all the time (and sometimes, to be fair, they get a rollocking over the PA)

[Beeacon]

Is it just me that when im filling my Z with fuel, the petrol pump keeps stopping as if it full (even when im just starting and its pretty empty), I have to keep juggling the pump to different angles, or wait a second or two to carry on, occasionally I get a pump that only does it once or twice, but I do get it every time I fill up and in any station, not a huge issue, just wondered if anyone else has the same thing happen,

Rusty, I'm getting the exact same issue at the moment. Did you ever find out what the problem was? I've done a search around the internet but only seem to find things about the fuel tank breather valve and a charcoal canister.

[RustyZ4]

Is it just me that when im filling my Z with fuel, the petrol pump keeps stopping as if it full (even when im just starting and its pretty empty), I have to keep juggling the pump to different angles, or wait a second or two to carry on, occasionally I get a pump that only does it once or twice, but I do get it every time I fill up and in any station, not a huge issue, just wondered if anyone else has the same thing happen,

Rusty, I'm getting the exact same issue at the moment. Did you ever find out what the problem was? I've done a search around the internet but only seem to find things about the fuel tank breather valve and a charcoal canister.

Hi Beeacon
Nope still got the same problem, when it was in BMW they checked it out and said nothing was wrong, and as usual blamed it on the pumps!! funny enough, I had a conversation with a guy with a Z4, where we were both filling up, and he came over, saw me doing the usual juggling act, and said "im glad its not just me",,,,, the only real issue is , you never know if its full or not,
I think its common issue on a few cars and no real answer

[Beeacon]

As far as I can make out its got to be something to do with the pressure in the tank building up (because the fumes aren't getting to/through the activated charcoal filter). That way every time you put a little fuel in, the air pressure builds up and shuts off the pump.

If you imagine turning a bottle of water upside down it glugs to allow water out and then air in. As soon as the pressure builds up it swaps over to bringing air in instead of water out, and then swaps over again. If you were to put a hole in the bottle with which to draw air there wouldn't be a problem as the pressure would be maintained. In this instance the hole in the bottle is connected to the breather valve which is connected to the charcoal canister. Its also probably why if I pump fuel in very slowly it seems to be ok.

So I think the problem lies somewhere along that breather element; whether its a blocked pipe, a stuck valve, or the charcoal canister is full. I read somewhere else that if you fill your car right to the brim then it can sometimes expand in hot weather into the charcoal canister, causing the vapour to clump together. I regularly filled mine to the brim which has some merit, do/did you?

[RustyZ4]

As far as I can make out its got to be something to do with the pressure in the tank building up (because the fumes aren't getting to/through the activated charcoal filter). That way every time you put a little fuel in, the air pressure builds up and shuts off the pump.

If you imagine turning a bottle of water upside down it glugs to allow water out and then air in. As soon as the pressure builds up it swaps over to bringing air in instead of water out, and then swaps over again. If you were to put a hole in the bottle with which to draw air there wouldn't be a problem as the pressure would be maintained. In this instance the hole in the bottle is connected to the breather valve which is connected to the charcoal canister. Its also probably why if I pump fuel in very slowly it seems to be ok.

So I think the problem lies somewhere along that breather element; whether its a blocked pipe, a stuck valve, or the charcoal canister is full. I read somewhere else that if you fill your car right to the brim then it can sometimes expand in hot weather into the charcoal canister, causing the vapour to clump together. I regularly filled mine to the brim which has some merit, do/did you?

Yep always fill my car up to the brim, that's interesting about the breather, my cars going in for a service in June, might get them to have another look

[Beeacon]

I also just found this in their repair manual:

https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e89- ... 1VncHKRTF8

I'm not entirely sure what it means or what the diagnosis is, but its obvious that they've had the problem before and logged it.

[RustyZ4]

very interesting,,,, thanks for that,,


love this ,,,,
"Important information:

The fault patterns in the test module depend to some extent on the production period, optional equipment, motorisation and other features. It is therefore possible that not all content or different content to that described above may be displayed for different vehicles."

[Smartbear]

As far as I can make out its got to be something to do with the pressure in the tank building up (because the fumes aren't getting to/through the activated charcoal filter). That way every time you put a little fuel in, the air pressure builds up and shuts off the pump.

If you imagine turning a bottle of water upside down it glugs to allow water out and then air in. As soon as the pressure builds up it swaps over to bringing air in instead of water out, and then swaps over again. If you were to put a hole in the bottle with which to draw air there wouldn't be a problem as the pressure would be maintained. In this instance the hole in the bottle is connected to the breather valve which is connected to the charcoal canister. Its also probably why if I pump fuel in very slowly it seems to be ok.

So I think the problem lies somewhere along that breather element; whether its a blocked pipe, a stuck valve, or the charcoal canister is full. I read somewhere else that if you fill your car right to the brim then it can sometimes expand in hot weather into the charcoal canister, causing the vapour to clump together. I regularly filled mine to the brim which has some merit, do/did you?

I’d be surprised if the issue is caused by pressure build up as you’re not forming an airtight seal with the fuel nozzle any potential pressure would just be vented to atmosphere
Rob

[Beeacon]

Sorry to be posting constantly, but Pelican Parts have had this issue a lot on the E90 by the looks of it and have shown how to diagnose the issue mentioning that it can be the following things:

- Charcoal canister
- Vent to the charcoal canister
- Solenoid
- DMTL pump
- DMTL pump lines

The diagnosis is to pull the vent away from the charcoal canister, then try and fill the car. If the car fills without any clicking then its a blockage in the charcoal canister or beyond (which i think is the DMTL pump). If it continues clicking with these hoses unplugged, then its one of the hoses that is blocked or the solenoid and can be cleaned with some compressed air.

Link to fuel supply 3D image:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e89- ... y/8HvwldCJ

Link to E90 advice:
https://www.pelicanparts.com/BMW/techar ... lacing.htm

I am by no means a mechanic but this may help point your mechanic in the right direction

[Beeacon]

I’d be surprised if the issue is caused by pressure build up as you’re not forming an airtight seal with the fuel nozzle any potential pressure would just be vented to atmosphere
Rob

Hi Smartbear,
Just from a bit of reading up that seems to be how the pump nozzle operates, as it starts to fill the tank the air that is inside the tank can't escape, so the fueling hose backs up and shuts off the pump. There must be at least a little bit of air able to escape the tank through the fueling hose as you can start to fill it again briefly before it cuts out once more, that and the breather hose probably isn't fully clogged up, but clogged enough to make fueling a pain.

[Dave 2 dogs]

Have this problem on an e 89 I just got
Sooo bloody annoying, takes forever to get anything in the tank