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Buying and selling Z4's (VEHICLE SALES ONLY) (private sales only, no traders)
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Mroadster
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2006 Z4 M Roadster - 68K miles - full service history and warranty

Post by Mroadster » Wed Dec 13, 2017 3:27 pm

Thanks Marlon, obviously I'm not expecting only positive comments, but not even all this unjustified negativity, as I already said. I deeply respect "knowledgeable owners", but the things I'm debating aren't "knownledgeable" at all. I respected and clarified on all the remarks that were useful and constructive (even when not positive).

I appreciate an advice to remove the wrap, which I won't do for the reasons already explained. I don't appreciate all the following assumptions that the car is damaged, rusty and whatever else because it's just not the case. I posted pics of what the car looked like just two weeks before the wrap.
Your wrap is on a 12/13 year old car
This comment is almost as funny as "the car has lost some hp as well". It's a 2006, and I believe we're in 2017? The wrap was done when the car was 10 years old, not 12/13. The paintwork was flawless, besides a couple of stone chips, which are absolutely normal and were properly patched by the previous owners. There's no rust anywhere. The car has been - on my request - checked by Dub Customs and Technosport with the order to fix anything that would appear to be wrong with it. I had money to spend when I bought the car, therefore was looking for a good one, which is why I spent 15.5k when there were other cars for sale from 12k. So I was also ready to spend more to make sure it was in proper condition and safeguard it - and as you can imagine, the garages would have been happy to take my money if they could justify it. I also had a full warranty going on from the day I purchased, and still going on now, so if there was anything wrong I would have made a claim and fixed it.

All these comments are really unnecessary and based on no evidence, and their only result is to create panic and hijack my sale. I don't think it's fair. I don't see people going to other threads assuming that an engine is about to explode, etc.

I have to come here everyday to reply to people sharing horror stories about wraps. I don't think everyone with a sales thread has to do the same about horror stories of bad garages doing poor service etc. I just say that my case doesn't necessarily need to be like that, and then the next day someone else comes to add another horror story. Really? Maybe you guys need a thread for wrap horror stories, it doesn't need to be here, it's seriously off topic.

By the way..
Installing vinyl on your vehicle, will damage the paint underneath.

False. In fact, it’s the total opposite. Many people wrap their vehicles to preserve the paint underneath. The vinyl acts as a cover for the paint, preventing any adverse weather or sun from beating on the paint. It also acts the same way a clear bra would, protecting the paint from small scratches and dings from rocks or debris. If uninstalled correctly, the vinyl won’t leave any residue, or peel any paint or clear coat with it. That being said, if the paint is already in bad condition when you apply the vinyl, you can expect it to still be the same when you peel it off!
From: http://finelinegraphics.co/vinyl-wraps-myths-debunked
Last edited by Mroadster on Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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2006 Z4 M Roadster - 68K miles - full service history and warranty

Post by earthdweller » Wed Dec 13, 2017 5:29 pm

Mroadster wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 3:27 pm
Thanks Marlon, obviously I'm not expecting only positive comments, but not even all this unjustified negativity, as I already said.

I appreciate an advice to remove the wrap, which I won't do for the reasons already explained. I don't appreciate all the following assumptions that the car is damaged, rusty and whatever else because it's just not the case. I posted pics of what the car looked like just two weeks before the wrap.
Your wrap is on a 12/13 year old car
This comment is almost as funny as "the car has lost some hp as well". It's a 2006, and I believe we're in 2017? The wrap was done when the car was 10 years old, not 12/13. The paintwork was flawless, besides a couple of stone chips, which are absolutely normal and were properly patched by the previous owners. There's no rust anywhere. The car has been - on my request - checked by Dub Customs and Technosport with the order to fix anything that would appear to be wrong with it. I had money to spend when I bought the car, therefore was looking for a good one, which is why I spent 15.5k when there were other cars for sale from 12k. So I was also ready to spend more to make sure it was in proper condition and safeguard it - and as you can imagine, the garages would have been happy to take my money if they could justify it. I also had a full warranty going on from the day I purchased, and still going on now, so if there was anything wrong I would have made a claim and fixed it.

All these comments are really unnecessary and based on no evidence, and their only result is to create panic and hijack my sale. I don't think it's fair. I don't see people going to other threads assuming that an engine is about to explode, etc.

I have to come here everyday to reply to people sharing horror stories about wraps. I don't think everyone with a sales thread has to do the same about horror stories of bad garages doing poor service etc. I just say that my case doesn't necessarily need to be like that, and then the next day someone else comes to add another horror story. Really? Maybe you guys need a thread for wrap horror stories, it doesn't need to be here, it's seriously off topic.

By the way..
Installing vinyl on your vehicle, will damage the paint underneath.

False. In fact, it’s the total opposite. Many people wrap their vehicles to preserve the paint underneath. The vinyl acts as a cover for the paint, preventing any adverse weather or sun from beating on the paint. It also acts the same way a clear bra would, protecting the paint from small scratches and dings from rocks or debris. If uninstalled correctly, the vinyl won’t leave any residue, or peel any paint or clear coat with it. That being said, if the paint is already in bad condition when you apply the vinyl, you can expect it to still be the same when you peel it off!
From: http://finelinegraphics.co/vinyl-wraps-myths-debunked
I think you have misunderstood what I said

Buying any old car is a risk ... especially a high performance one

I gave you my perspective from a buyers point of view

And

What I thought would be helpful advice to enable you to sell the car on an enthusiasts forum

I didn’t say your car was rusty or damaged at all .. I’ll accept your word quite happily that the car is totally mint underneath .. but then I’m not planning on giving you £14.5k for it .. but wraps can be used to hide all sorts of nastiness

I’ll stand by my comments that a 10 year car wearing a wrap is a far riskier prospect to a potential buyer than a box fresh car

Most 2006 cars, if not already turned into baked bean tins are in the £500+ bracket and probably one owner away from the baked bean tin scenario

The value .. in my mind .. in old cars is in the originality and condition .. and my friendly advice to you to help you sell it, was to remove the wrap .. but yes I get that you like it and don’t want to do that

I don’t want to upset you and I’m sorry if my post has got you cross, but as Marlon said this is an enthusiasts discussion board and not autotrader

What I said, I said with the intention of helping you sell your car and realise the most money for it

Anyway, good luck with the sale :)
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2006 Z4 M Roadster - 68K miles - full service history and warranty

Post by Mroadster » Wed Dec 13, 2017 5:37 pm

I thank you all for your efforts in convincing me about removing the wrap, there's basically three pages of that now. I've replied since the beginning explaining that I think it's an upgrade, that is protecting the car and looks great. I will sort with potential buyers about how to deal with it, removing, giving guarantees etc. It's between me and them.

Planes can crash, but are still safer than cars. People can die with surgery, but it's still better than keeping a disease. There's horror stories about anything. So more posts about how dreadful some experiences about wraps have been, aren't really necessary, useful or helping. I'm sure you all can get it. Thanks!

:headbang:

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Post by john-e89 » Wed Dec 13, 2017 5:39 pm

You don’t HAVE to come ‘every day’ to defend the wrap, you can take the sale off a public forum and pay for an ad elsewhere.

3 months and it’s still for sale.....does that not tell you all you need to know? Stick your head in the sand all day long, get cross at people trying to help, but the simple fact is you’re vastly reducing your chance of a sale keeping the wrap, it looks great, but it’s what it looks like underneath that is causing concern, be that rightly or wrongly, but that’s just how it is.
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Post by Mroadster » Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:00 pm

john-e89 wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 5:39 pm
it’s what it looks like underneath that is causing concern
There's pics of how it looks underneath, and it's simply in mint condition. I think it's my right to just come here and say that the concerns are just unjustified assumptions, and give details and info about the actual state. I don't NEED to come here every day to just state the simple facts about wrap and about my car, but I kind of HAVE TO, otherwise this thread, which is supposed to be a sales thread about my car, in a sales section, was becoming a thread that would be better titled "Let's share horror stories about wraps, without giving any details and context".. or "Let's state and assume things that are simply untrue about this car" (like.. "it has lost power" or "it's 12/13 years old" and so on).. I seriously don't understand why you guys don't get it.

I understood, thanked, replied, explained about the friendly advice. All the rest is repeated, unnecessary, unjustified negativity that just doesn't help at all.

I keep getting comments about having placed a free ad on a forum.. for which I'm very thankful. I came here rather than on AutoTrader because I respect and admire the community and hoped that an enthusiast would buy my car, rather than a random that wouldn't appreciate the rarity, importance and therefore preserve it. Because that's the idea behind me buying it in the first place, and I'm kind of broken hearted to have to sell it.

I don't think I've insulted anyone, or have been unpolite or anything. I've used this forum for over an year now, even though just browsing and sometimes sending a few PMs. I've just politely asked to not go off topic and hijack the thread. Again.

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Post by mr wilks » Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:43 pm

Jmo op but nothing to stop you starting another sale thread , if you do i would trim through the wording considerably & also thin out the pics .
Along with a couple of interior , under bonnet pics i would add a max of 2/3 as the car stands now (wrapped) & 2/3 as it was previously .
A brief summary of the service history & current brakes / tyre condition . Any further info can be given to interested parties who ask
I suspect as with many cars its about getting feet in front of it & the car would sell itself .
Best of luck & if this is also annoying happy to remove :thumbsup:
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Post by earthdweller » Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:51 pm

I shouldn’t bite ... however

“There's pics of how it looks underneath, and it's simply in mint condition”

I think .. posting pics of the for sale ad from when you bought the car two years ago + is somewhat misleading and cannot be taken as fact to the condition of the vehicle underneath the wrap today

Neither you, I or any person can make an assertion to the exact condition to the paint underneath unless the wrap is removed

Posting pics taken before you owned the vehicle as proof of its condition today is rather disengeneous
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Post by john-e89 » Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:12 pm

Mroadster wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:00 pm
john-e89 wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 5:39 pm
it’s what it looks like underneath that is causing concern
There's pics of how it looks underneath, and it's simply in mint condition. .. I seriously don't understand why you guys don't get it.

AFTER the wrap......NOT BEFORE.......!!!!!! :headbang:
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Post by Mroadster » Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:20 pm

john-e89 wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:12 pm
Mroadster wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:00 pm
john-e89 wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 5:39 pm
it’s what it looks like underneath that is causing concern
There's pics of how it looks underneath, and it's simply in mint condition. .. I seriously don't understand why you guys don't get it.

AFTER the wrap......NOT BEFORE.......!!!!!! :headbang:
Yes, and I've pasted sources that state the simple fact that a good, professional wrap job that is properly installed and properly uninistalled leaves the car exactly as it was before the wrap, as it works exactly like a transparent "bra" film, which is designed ONLY for paint protection and that whose only point is to protect the paint underneath.

I've explained, I think from the very beginning, that I'm not desperate to sell the car, that I'm not willing to unwrap it just to chase a buyer, and that this thread is just for an eventual enthusiast that understands the value of the upgrades. I don't really care if people that don't trust a wrap as a matter of principle, and won't trust me, the wrappers, the dealer etc.. and all the other evidence I posted just run away.

Maybe one day I will be desperate and I will unwrap it for a quick sale for just 5000£. But for the moment..

.. if a positive enthusiast is interested, just message me and we can discuss all the details, in a reasonable way (also about the wrap, obviously). Besides what everyone here is thinking, I'm not trying to trick anyone in buying a damaged, rusty car by putting a layer of wrap on it - it's even a bit insulting that it's been hinted so longly. There's really not much else to say. Thanks for the advice, everybody. Now go criticise someone else's car please? :D
Last edited by Mroadster on Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Post by john-e89 » Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:25 pm

Best of luck Mroadster, I truly do hope you find a buyer. :driving:
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Post by Beedub » Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:39 pm

AND this is why i would never post my car for sale on this forum. EVER.

GL OP im sorry for the BS on you FS thread, car looks wicked, and its a great colour underneath too, you've got some pics evidencing the before paint condition, looks like a lovely overall car.

relatively lowish miles and imo at 14.5k its a bargain!

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Post by john-e89 » Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:42 pm

Beedub wrote:
Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:39 pm
AND this is why i would never post my car for sale on this forum. EVER.

GL OP im sorry for the BS on you FS thread, car looks wicked, and its a great colour underneath too, you've got some pics evidencing the before paint condition, looks like a lovely overall car.

relatively lowish miles and imo at 14.5k its a bargain!
You ripped me to pieces when I sold my first M, short memory obviously...
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Post by Beedub » Sat Dec 16, 2017 11:06 pm

john-e89 wrote:
Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:42 pm
Beedub wrote:
Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:39 pm
AND this is why i would never post my car for sale on this forum. EVER.

GL OP im sorry for the BS on you FS thread, car looks wicked, and its a great colour underneath too, you've got some pics evidencing the before paint condition, looks like a lovely overall car.

relatively lowish miles and imo at 14.5k its a bargain!
You ripped me to pieces when I sold my first M, short memory obviously...
i may have well done, and actually have commented on the general trend on here, which back in the day ive been part of, but more recent years have tried to change some of the cultures of the club and its members, myself included........ But seems as tho you didn't like it, i see your here dishing out your helping too... So i guess we both are as bad as each other.

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Post by john-e89 » Sat Dec 16, 2017 11:11 pm

Beedub wrote:
Sat Dec 16, 2017 11:06 pm
john-e89 wrote:
Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:42 pm
Beedub wrote:
Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:39 pm
AND this is why i would never post my car for sale on this forum. EVER.

GL OP im sorry for the BS on you FS thread, car looks wicked, and its a great colour underneath too, you've got some pics evidencing the before paint condition, looks like a lovely overall car.

relatively lowish miles and imo at 14.5k its a bargain!
You ripped me to pieces when I sold my first M, short memory obviously...
i may have well done, and actually have commented on the general trend on here, which back in the day ive been part of, but more recent years have tried to change some of the cultures of the club and its member, myself included........ But seems as tho you didn't like it, i see your here dishing out your helping too....
Again a short memory, I didn’t say anything negative on your comments, I took it on the chin, so how you can say I didn’t like it is baffling. Nothing worse than a reformed smoker preaching.
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Post by Beedub » Sat Dec 16, 2017 11:15 pm

john-e89 wrote:
Sat Dec 16, 2017 11:11 pm
Beedub wrote:
Sat Dec 16, 2017 11:06 pm
john-e89 wrote:
Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:42 pm


You ripped me to pieces when I sold my first M, short memory obviously...
i may have well done, and actually have commented on the general trend on here, which back in the day ive been part of, but more recent years have tried to change some of the cultures of the club and its member, myself included........ But seems as tho you didn't like it, i see your here dishing out your helping too....
Again a short memory, I didn’t say anything negative on your comments, I took it on the chin, so how you can say I didn’t like it is baffling. Nothing worse than a reformed smoker preaching.
you clearly didn't otherwise you wouldn't mention it years later.....

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