cars been bumped (whilst at BMW Rochdale)

[pvr]

Isn't an important detail that they parked the car in that location, and not Taz, so they were in charge of the car at the time and driving under their insurance?

[krusty]

Personally I wouldn't even get into more arguments - start procedings immediately .......... Ie get a brief to write a letter saying procedings are starting (let a judge decide). Once thats in motion, things usually get easier....

This is the most appalling advice. Never ever start proceedings against another party unless (a) other avenues have been shown to be exhausted, and (b) you have written advice from your solicitor advising you that the prospects of success are very good. If you start proceedings and lose (or start proceedings and stop them), you will have to pay the other sides costs (in addition to your own). Legal costs of proceedings will vastly exceed the costs of the repair. If you start proceedings without exhausting civil letters setting out your case and the position of the other side, your conduct may be considered frivolous, and your conduct will count against you in a hearing on costs.

The law is an ass ... it is not always clear. Only idiots prance into battle without checking how the land lies first.

[Zed Five]

They will probably point to the little sign on the wall of the service department that says they accept no responsibility of your property whilst in their care.

I recall when I studied contract law (admittedly some time ago) that such a sign is not enforcable. It suggests that the company cannot be liable for anything whatsoever. This cannot be. So if a BMW employee reverses you car into a wall at the dealership, the sign suggests that they are not responsible/liable. - Rubbish.

Taz, i'd advise in investing in 30 minutes with a solictor.

[Adamski]

Ok summary of conversation:

Mr Z - BMW will try to avoid liability at all costs. Check the sign in the car park for any disclaimer - could you have seen it....?

They will probably point to the little sign on the wall of the service department that says they accept no responsibility of your property whilst in their care.

Mr Z - Was the car ready for pick up from previous repair work? It could help in the event of a dispute if your car wasnt ready for pick up, as it shouldnt be parked in the customer car park if not ready for pre-arranged pick up?

Mr Z's advice is to talk to Mrs X and pursue her insurance company. If she doesnt cooperate, get a quote from BMW for repair (backed by a warranty). Send the quote to her insurers demanding payment.

As others have said - you might need to get nasty on this one. It's likely given BMWs stance that the answer lies with Mrs X and not BMW though.

[SimonJ]

No worries, obviously not to be taken as legal advice just opinion!

[Taz]

Mr Z - Was the car ready for pick up from previous repair work? It could help in the event of a dispute if your car wasnt ready for pick up, as it shouldnt be parked in the customer car park if not ready for pre-arranged pick up?

I was due to pick it up, they have had it for 8 weeks for warranty work

I think i will try and speak with a solicitor

[teamemmenracing]

Personally I wouldn't even get into more arguments - start procedings immediately .......... Ie get a brief to write a letter saying procedings are starting (let a judge decide). Once thats in motion, things usually get easier....

This is the most appalling advice. Never ever start proceedings...............

Well thats one opinion ..... and you are entitled to it. By starting procedings, I think I said "ie get a brief to write a letter saying prodecings are starting....."
Maybe I was unclear ....... writing the letter is only the start of the procedure, which is where it usually stops. No brief would proceed or allow you to proceed unless there was a case to win. The point of starting the procedure ..... is because a legal brief is the expert, and you are not ........ they dont rely on 20 different peoples different opinions, they rely on the law.

I have 2 instances where I used this succesfully, once against an insurance company over a 150 quid claim ..... and one with an estate agent who billed me 10 grand for services not rendered. Both were settled within 24 hrs.

I also have work experience where .......... squabbles about who owes what to who ......... are allowed to run their course on the basis of they may go away, and even if they don't, there is no extra cost...... so why bother - until a legal letter drops through the door ..... and its settle now before the costs get out of control.

It was only offered as advice .............. and I duly appologise if I have appalled anyone.

[srhutch]

They will probably point to the little sign on the wall of the service department that says they accept no responsibility of your property whilst in their care.

If it had been a BMW member of staff, things may have been different. But from what Taz has said, reckon BMW will pin all laibility on Mrs X, and want nothing more to do with it....

If the dealer themselves had damaged the car I don't think this thread would have gone on as long as I'm sure the dealer would have sorted. But as it was another customer it's a different story so long as the dealer hasn't been negligent.

[mason storm]

Reading this briefly I can only conclude the the dealer is responsible as the car was in their care and they parked it when it got hit - end of storey as far as I can see. Especially if they parked it in the public part of the car park as it should be in the service area, I would say it would be different if you had just dropped it off or they had finished and you were collecting that day.

So yes if they are not playing ball i think it is worth seeing a solicitor or googling for a forum with advaice on insurance law which would be cheaper

If the shoe was on the other foot and you were driving one of their cars under your own insurance I don't think they would be impressed if you left the car in a car park and someone bumped it and you said it's up to them to argue with the third party.

[Wondermike]

I duly appologise if I have appalled anyone.

LOL

Taz hope you get it sorted ok.

[AlienZed]

Just been reading this,no Zed for 8 weeks and then this happens,you must be gutted and very angry.I would have thought ,it was up to them to sort it for you.Wether it be duty of care,or customer relations,i think they have a moral responsibility to sort it for you.
Good luck hope your back on the road soon.

[Bandit007]

Taz, are you a member on Pistonheads? If not why not join and post your situation in the SP&L section. They have some legal eagles on there that may be able to advise you of your options and suggest a course of action. Just a thought..........

[mmm-five]

Saw your car at BMW Rochdale today, but didn't immediately notice any damage.

However, does seem strange that it's always there when I take mine in

BTW, as I was booking it in, the conversation turned to the exorbitant cost of Insp1 & Insp2. They claimed the reason the cost of the Insp2 was almost double that of the Insp1 is down to valve clearances. I didn't bother pointing out their error. I'm glad it's only in for a follow-up to the leaking cam cover seal that was supposed to be fixed (in fact replaced during a standard Inspection) during the Insp1 3 months ago, as there's a published £18/day 'admin' charge for use of their 118D SE - don't know if they're going to waive it or not yet - but I can hire a Ford Ka for that from Enterprise.

[ChawenHalo]

Personally I wouldn't even get into more arguments - start procedings immediately .......... Ie get a brief to write a letter saying procedings are starting (let a judge decide). Once thats in motion, things usually get easier....

This is the most appalling advice. Never ever start proceedings against another party unless (a) other avenues have been shown to be exhausted, and (b) you have written advice from your solicitor advising you that the prospects of success are very good. If you start proceedings and lose (or start proceedings and stop them), you will have to pay the other sides costs (in addition to your own). Legal costs of proceedings will vastly exceed the costs of the repair. If you start proceedings without exhausting civil letters setting out your case and the position of the other side, your conduct may be considered frivolous, and your conduct will count against you in a hearing on costs.

The law is an ass ... it is not always clear. Only idiots prance into battle without checking how the land lies first.

Its a good point. But if you have exhausted all avenues ie: they won't hear reason, then get legal advice (credit card, insurers of your car etc). TeamMenacing is correct that you will get a different lmevel of answer. That dealership is probably hoping that you will just go away.

Best of luck dude. I'm amaized BMW HQ will have nothing to do with it. What do their customer service say?

[AlanJ]

Taz x,

Sorry to hear of this nonsense and really hope it can be sorted amicably however:

Not an expert on this type of problem so please don’t act on my advice without getting proper legal guidance if required. However here’s food for thought. Car insurance liability extends to its use and in general the person using is the driver of that vehicle and hence must be insured to basic UK requirements. Of course an owner can be liable for its use if the car is used by a driver (commercial vehicle insurance usually where a number of people use a fleet vehicle) but only in certain circumstance and where liability can extend to the owner through illegal use of the vehicle – allowing use with defective parts for example.

Now to the conundrum of this problem. At the time the Zed was moved from its original position to where the damage occurred then the Rochdale BMW employed driver/mechanic who moved the vehicle would need to be covered by the dealers insurance (including public liability insurance). All pretty standard stuff. The question then, in this case, is that the owner had no control over where, when and how the vehicle was parked prior to the collision and it could be argued that the dealers insurance (and indeed his/her liability) must apply until such time as full and complete control of the vehicle is handed back to the owner i.e the owner was in control of the vehicle at the time of the incident. For example where a garage takes a vehicle for a test drive and the garage employed test driver decides to park and get a coffee or whatever and the stationary vehicle is involved in a road traffic incident then the liability must fall on the garage and their insurance as direct control of the vehicle was not with the owner but with the garage employee.

So legal advice I think is the appropriate first resort if it cant get sorted. Citizens advice as ever can help identify a local lawyer where you get the first 30 mins for free to assess your case and see if its a runner.

As with all these types of matters meticulously record the interaction between you and the dealership. Record the nature of all telephone conversations and always ask them to confirm in writing to you any decision they may make. Likewise deal with them through written correspondence – recorded delivery or hand delivered. Try and avoid any arguments on the phone as this will generally get you nowhere. Often demonstrating a professional and considered approach to such matters is sufficient to get them to capitulate. AND DONT use legal action as a threat. Any recourse to a legal remedy should be a considered approach based on proper advice and let your lawyer make the formal contact.