E85 - Sound Deadening and Door Speakers

User avatar
SamUK
Member
Member
Posts: 409
Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2014 11:43 pm

Re: E85 - Sound Deadening and Door Speakers

Post by SamUK » Thu May 07, 2015 10:52 am

I was thinking about this all night, and this morning finally checked..I have no 4" in the door..only tweeter... lol so its a 3 way system :D


So i could potentially swap out the 6.5" mid bass speakers now..

However not sure if i can install the new 4" components and run without an amp..or you think i will be ok?

do i cut the capacitor out? as in your picture?

Online
User avatar
PerryGunn
Lifer
Lifer
Posts: 8614
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2012 6:16 pm
Location: By the seaside...

Re: E85 - Sound Deadening and Door Speakers

Post by PerryGunn » Thu May 07, 2015 11:28 am

You should be able to add the new 4" as the OEM HU doesn't seem to have any issues with powering the extra speaker.

If you're just going to add the new 4" and planning to tap into the tweeter feed to provide a feed to the new speaker (i.e. without your new crossover), you'll want to leave the in-line capacitor alone.

If you're going to add your new crossover when you add the 4" speaker, you might as well replace the tweeter at the same time (presume you'll add your own wiring between crossover and tweeter so the in-line capacitor won't be an issue)
Alpina Roadster S #320
* Quaife ATB LSD * StrongStrut Braces * Turner RTAB Limiters * Gap-Tech RCH+ *
* Intravee & KCA-420i * Mini 0806 * Cheetah C550 * Stubby *

User avatar
SamUK
Member
Member
Posts: 409
Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2014 11:43 pm

Re: E85 - Sound Deadening and Door Speakers

Post by SamUK » Thu May 07, 2015 1:04 pm

So leave the capacitor in place? just extend the wires from the tweeter to the crossover?

I will be adding the crossover, 4" speaker & new tweeter.

Do you know which color wire is positive & negative on the original tweeter?

Online
User avatar
PerryGunn
Lifer
Lifer
Posts: 8614
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2012 6:16 pm
Location: By the seaside...

Re: E85 - Sound Deadening and Door Speakers

Post by PerryGunn » Thu May 07, 2015 1:35 pm

SamUK wrote:So leave the capacitor in place? just extend the wires from the tweeter to the crossover?

I will be adding the crossover, 4" speaker & new tweeter.
If you're adding your new tweeter, just disconnect the old one at the loom plug (the capacitor is part of the tweeter & connecting wire unit), then run new wires from your crossover to your new tweeter & 4" speaker
SamUK wrote:Do you know which color wire is positive & negative on the original tweeter?
IIRC, I worked it out from looking at the tweeter - I can't remember exactly but there is usually a mark or coloured dot indicating the +ve terminal
Alpina Roadster S #320
* Quaife ATB LSD * StrongStrut Braces * Turner RTAB Limiters * Gap-Tech RCH+ *
* Intravee & KCA-420i * Mini 0806 * Cheetah C550 * Stubby *

igeak691
Member
Member
Posts: 313
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2014 1:31 am

Re: E85 - Sound Deadening and Door Speakers

Post by igeak691 » Sun Oct 25, 2015 11:40 pm

Bump to an old thread, and a huge thanks to the OP for showing how to add the sound deadening. Totally worth it to do, and took me just under 2 hours to do both sides. It was clear that my passenger door never had its panel removed before, while I think the drivers door has been into a few times. Y'know, it's loose and not tight ;)

YouTube channel with car vlogs in my zed!
Please subscribe and share my videos with fellow enthusiasts!

User avatar
RickZ4
Member
Member
Posts: 251
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2015 10:02 pm
Location: West Dorset

Re: E85 - Sound Deadening and Door Speakers

Post by RickZ4 » Sun Nov 29, 2015 10:35 pm

PerryGunn wrote:
RenoRaines wrote:The other thing to consider is of course the current. I would like to continue the story. So front speakers are driven from the same channel. Instead of adding front speaker would it be able to add 2 bass speaker in the rear. Rear channel speakers are "alone" on the channel. Could you simply add 2 OEM (2 Ohm from HiFi option for instance) speakers on the back using the existing channels?
I believe that people have tried this before but with limited success. The consensus seems to be that, once you get past adding the door speaker and possibly replacing the footwell woofer & door tweeter with better-quality units, you should be looking at an amplified setup.
Can anyone recommend some cheap drivers for ust the 'simple' option?
07 2.5i Sport with lid and Monkey tips

ImageImage

User avatar
RickZ4
Member
Member
Posts: 251
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2015 10:02 pm
Location: West Dorset

Re: E85 - Sound Deadening and Door Speakers

Post by RickZ4 » Sun Nov 29, 2015 10:35 pm

PerryGunn wrote:
RenoRaines wrote:The other thing to consider is of course the current. I would like to continue the story. So front speakers are driven from the same channel. Instead of adding front speaker would it be able to add 2 bass speaker in the rear. Rear channel speakers are "alone" on the channel. Could you simply add 2 OEM (2 Ohm from HiFi option for instance) speakers on the back using the existing channels?
I believe that people have tried this before but with limited success. The consensus seems to be that, once you get past adding the door speaker and possibly replacing the footwell woofer & door tweeter with better-quality units, you should be looking at an amplified setup.
Can anyone recommend some cheap drivers for just the 'simple' option?
07 2.5i Sport with lid and Monkey tips

ImageImage

User avatar
Steve84N
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 1741
Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2015 1:00 pm

Re: E85 - Sound Deadening and Door Speakers

Post by Steve84N » Mon Dec 07, 2015 2:34 pm

Thanks to Perry for the info on the sound deadening and speakers.

My door cards now look almost identical to his pictures as I used SilentCoat 2mm and the same Hertz speakers given that I knew they would fit. However, having worked with the SilentCoat and realising how stiff it is I did not cover the airbag slot as I'm sure it would compromise opening speed if not even the ability to burst through correctly.

On a coupe I already had sound deadening on the metal door skin thankfully so no need to bust open the butyl seal. That said, adding material to the door cards has made a noticeable difference to the noise levels in the cabin. I'm a bit sad to have lost some of the engine noise but it's worth it for the reduced tyre roar on the motorway.

I found myself turning the treble back down again now that there is decent sound coming from that area.

A worthwhile modification for modest outlay.
C63 AMG Estate 6208cc

Magicarcher
Member
Member
Posts: 418
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2016 9:12 pm

E85 - Sound Deadening and Door Speakers

Post by Magicarcher » Sun Jan 01, 2017 9:43 am

great writeup. i notice on the door panel the fasteners are two different colours, are they different? I would like to have some spares on hand.
Z4 3.0L 2005.

Online
User avatar
PerryGunn
Lifer
Lifer
Posts: 8614
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2012 6:16 pm
Location: By the seaside...

E85 - Sound Deadening and Door Speakers

Post by PerryGunn » Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:01 am

Repeat of initial post with pictures now hosted by the forum - had to split it into two posts due to limit on number of attachments per post
---

I originally posted this information in another thread but I thought I should reproduce it here as it's a more logical place if anyone is looking for the info

I wasn't very happy with the 'tinny' sound of the E85 doors when opening/closing, I heard all the arguments about 'It's a sports car, so it's to make
it lighter' but felt that an extra 4 or 5 pound in each door would hardly impact the performance, and the quality of the door sound was out-of-place with an upmarket car

So I decided that I'd add some sound deadening sheets to the inside of the outer door skin to make the doors feel more solid and, as I only have the basic 6-speaker stereo, and seeing as the door was going to be apart, I also decided that I'd add the 'missing' door speakers

I'll provide links to items similar to those that I used, and where possible I'll link to items on Amazon, you can probably find them cheaper on eBay etc. but the Amazon links are likely to be longer-lived. If I can't find it on Amazon, I'll try to provide an alternative

Parts list
- Panel tools http://www.amazon.co.uk/Yellow-No-Scrat ... B009YDZ3TM
- Butyl rubber sealing strip http://www.amazon.co.uk/TREMSHIELD-BUTY ... B008452SWQ
- Silent Coat Extra (4mm) http://www.caraudiodirect.co.uk/silent- ... -door.html
- Silent Coat (2mm) http://www.caraudiodirect.co.uk/silent- ... r-kit.html
- Seam roller http://www.amazon.co.uk/Faithfull-Soft- ... B000Y8OUAE
- 4" Speakers http://www.caraudiodirect.co.uk/hertz-dieci-dcx-100-3
- Soldering iron, speaker cable, crimp connectors, sharp utility knife etc.

NB This is how I did things, but please see the notes at the end of the post as I've listed things that, in hindsight, I would have done differently

I'm not going to discuss removing & replacing the door card and tweeter triangle as this is covered brilliantly in the BSW videos http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Djgcv-VpCW8 and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yq1uKzpxnAU

Once you have the door card and triangle removed, you'll be presented with this
Deadening_01_zpsaee1c661.jpg
Deadening_01_zpsaee1c661.jpg (236.57 KiB) Viewed 464 times
The only tip I have over and above the BSW videos is that you need to have your window down to remove the door card but once the card is off, and before you disconnect the window switches etc., raise the window again or you'll have trouble fitting the deadening sheets

The inside of the door card looks like this
Deadening_02_zpsc591be09.jpg
Deadening_02_zpsc591be09.jpg (262.62 KiB) Viewed 464 times
and you'll see the blanking plate for the door speaker, this is held in place with 3 x 8mm bolts. Remove the blanking plates and, with any luck you will find that two of the mounting holes for the new speaker will fit over the two bottom posts. Don't bolt them in place yet

You then need to bend the top speaker mounts to conform to the shape of the door card - not too difficult as the metal isn't particularly thick. Once you are happy with this, use a 'pointy thing' to mark where you need to drill small pilot holes. Remove the speaker and drill a couple of pilot holes with a 1 or 2mm drill bit - be very careful as you don't want to go through your leather. Replace the speaker and secure with the two bolts and a couple of 10mm self-tapping screws (technically self-tappers don't need a pilot hole, but I prefer to give them some guidance if possible)

You should end up with something similar to
Deadening_03_zpsc926d753.jpg
Deadening_03_zpsc926d753.jpg (181.41 KiB) Viewed 464 times
Next, using a suitibly sharp utilty knife cut some of the 2mm Silent Coat to shape and stick to the rear of the door card - use the roller wherever possible to ensure it is stuck down firmly. If you put deadening in the airbag 'pocket' ensure that you slice the deadening lengthways down the centre (see the perforated line in the first doorcard picture) so that the airbag can deploy correctly when needed - I put the Silent Coat in as a single piece and then slit it down the centre before replacing the doorcard, this picture was taken before I made the cuts
Deadening_04_zps2443034d.jpg
Deadening_04_zps2443034d.jpg (242.53 KiB) Viewed 464 times

In the 6-speaker stereo, the tweeter in the triangle above the door receives a full range signal and there is an in-line capacitor close to the tweeter to create a high pass filter - this is the black heatshrink-wrapped blob to the left of the tweeter in this photo. The tweeter cable is routed through a couple of strain-relief grooves at the bottom of the housing and held in place with something like rubber cement - I removed the glue (it just prises out) so that I had more cable to work with. When I replaced the cable in the grooves I used a hot glue gun rather than rubber cement.
Deadening_05_zpse82284c1.jpg
Deadening_05_zpse82284c1.jpg (102.96 KiB) Viewed 464 times
I made up some leads, the left-hand lead below was about 80cm long and has crimped female spade connectors on one end and male bullet connectors on the other, the right-hand lead is abut 15cm and has female bullet connectors and bare wire. After crimping, I also fill the wire end of the crimp connectors with a squirt from a hot glue gun as it acts a bit of additional strain relief
Deadening_06_zpsa0a63d64.jpg
Deadening_06_zpsa0a63d64.jpg (129.6 KiB) Viewed 464 times
Cut the tweeter connector wire about 5cm from the end, strip and solder back together along with the bare ends of the bullet connector wires - don't forget to place some heatshrink tubing on the tweeter wires before soldering or you'll have to go back and redo it (ask me how I know). The Tweeter cables have a black stripe on the +ve wire so ensure that you match this up with your speaker wire.
Deadening_07_zpsb7d63666.jpg
Deadening_07_zpsb7d63666.jpg (112.87 KiB) Viewed 464 times
Alpina Roadster S #320
* Quaife ATB LSD * StrongStrut Braces * Turner RTAB Limiters * Gap-Tech RCH+ *
* Intravee & KCA-420i * Mini 0806 * Cheetah C550 * Stubby *

Online
User avatar
PerryGunn
Lifer
Lifer
Posts: 8614
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2012 6:16 pm
Location: By the seaside...

E85 - Sound Deadening and Door Speakers

Post by PerryGunn » Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:07 am

Back at the car, we need to remove the airbag so disconnect the lead from the -ve terminal of your battery or you'll end up with an airbag warning light and a trip to the dealers to get it reset. When you disconnect the battery, it's a good idea to wrap the end of the disconnected lead in a thick plastic bag so there's no danger of accidental reconnection.
Deadening_08_zpsad6e14e1.jpg
Deadening_08_zpsad6e14e1.jpg (214.25 KiB) Viewed 463 times
Remove the 3 bolts holding the airbag in place and then remove the connector , mine had a black locking clip that needed to be lifted on each side befor the connector would release
Deadening_09_zps27663068.jpg
Deadening_09_zps27663068.jpg (233.38 KiB) Viewed 463 times
Work your way around the top half of the foam door membrane with a sharp utilty knife slicing through the middle of the butyl rubber seal, try not to cut or tear the foam - the butyl should still be very sticky. Small cuts or tears in the foam can be repaired with a sticky blob made from the butyl tape
Deadening_10_zps9d4c2f11.jpg
Deadening_10_zps9d4c2f11.jpg (162.25 KiB) Viewed 463 times
There's no need to cut all the way around, the top half will peel back allowing you access to the inside of the door
Deadening_11_zpsbc6127b7.jpg
Deadening_11_zpsbc6127b7.jpg (206.61 KiB) Viewed 463 times
Cut the Silent Coat to size/shape and cover as much of the outer doorskin as you can reach - using the roller wherever possible and firm hand pressure when you can't use the roller
Deadening_12_zps2754f0de.jpg
Deadening_12_zps2754f0de.jpg (166.7 KiB) Viewed 463 times
I put in two layers using half the pack of 4mm Silent Coat on each door as the first layer and then covering this with another layer of the 2mm. You should be able to hear the difference if you rap on the outside of the door with your knuckles, the doors should sound a lot more solid
Deadening_13_zpsfe3d4a71.jpg
Deadening_13_zpsfe3d4a71.jpg (176.09 KiB) Viewed 463 times
I then added another bead of butyl just inside the original - the original butyl is still very sticky so this may not be strictly necessary.
Deadening_14_zpscb9526f8.jpg
Deadening_14_zpscb9526f8.jpg (118.99 KiB) Viewed 463 times
Re-stick the door foam being careful to ensure that all wires go back in the correct places. While you are doing this run the new speaker wire from the tweeter location (bullet end) to the speaker location (spade end). Follow the existing loom and secure the speaker cable by going over & under the existing cables. Reconnect and replace the airbag module.

Replace the door card connecting the speaker wires to the speaker (ensure polarity is correct) as you do so

When you reconnect the tweeter plug the bullet connectors together and push any spare wire behind the door card - I wrapped the wires in a small piece of bubblewrap to prevent any rattling
Deadening_15_zps22f9e96d.jpg
Deadening_15_zps22f9e96d.jpg (180.88 KiB) Viewed 463 times
If you turn on your stereo and wonder why nothing works, get out of the car and reconnect the battery :wink:


In Hindsight:

- I wouldn't bother with the pack of Silent Coat Extra (6 x 4mm sheets), the volume pack of Silent Coat (20 x 2mm sheets) is easily enough to do both doors and door cards.

- I'd tap into the tweeter feed lower down in the door and crimp a bullet socket onto the car side of the feed and then crimp both the door speaker and tweeter feed together into a bullet plug, once connected I'd add some heatshrink over them as additional damp-proofing. This would be very neat and easier than soldering.
Alpina Roadster S #320
* Quaife ATB LSD * StrongStrut Braces * Turner RTAB Limiters * Gap-Tech RCH+ *
* Intravee & KCA-420i * Mini 0806 * Cheetah C550 * Stubby *

Djcla
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 27
Joined: Thu May 17, 2018 8:35 pm

E85 - Sound Deadening and Door Speakers

Post by Djcla » Wed May 23, 2018 10:38 am

Hi, just so im clear you are effectively splicing into the tweeter wires and running the new speakers off the same feed from the stereo? so tweeter and new speaker on same cable back to stereo?

Online
User avatar
PerryGunn
Lifer
Lifer
Posts: 8614
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2012 6:16 pm
Location: By the seaside...

E85 - Sound Deadening and Door Speakers

Post by PerryGunn » Wed May 23, 2018 11:16 am

Djcla wrote:
Wed May 23, 2018 10:38 am
Hi, just so im clear you are effectively splicing into the tweeter wires and running the new speakers off the same feed from the stereo? so tweeter and new speaker on same cable back to stereo?
Yes, the tweeter receives a full-range signal and the additional speaker is wired in parallel with the tweeter
Alpina Roadster S #320
* Quaife ATB LSD * StrongStrut Braces * Turner RTAB Limiters * Gap-Tech RCH+ *
* Intravee & KCA-420i * Mini 0806 * Cheetah C550 * Stubby *

Post Reply