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Hard braking - Keeping her straight
- R60BBA
- Senior Member
- Posts: 1776
- Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2017 7:53 pm
- Location: London, United Kingdom
Hard braking - Keeping her straight
Just a further update.
Did some more testing today and noticed that the offside rear is stepping out a bit under hard braking, which is making it harder to keep her straight. (Thus, this is the fulcrum of the problem methinks).
It’s almost like it goes into a mini slide before I have to catch it again, and align correctly. Kind of like torque steer but whilst braking if that makes sense.
I tried braking hard at speed on different roads and got more or less the same results. However I noticed that it only happens from 70mph upwards, if I brake hard at 40/50/60mph there are no issues.
When I parked up I had a look at my discs and noticed that the offside rear has a groove/cut on the top (see attached) but none of the others seem to have this.
Was wondering if this could be causing the problem?
I’ve booked the car in with BMS Leatherhead for its brake upgrade in a couple weeks.
Did some more testing today and noticed that the offside rear is stepping out a bit under hard braking, which is making it harder to keep her straight. (Thus, this is the fulcrum of the problem methinks).
It’s almost like it goes into a mini slide before I have to catch it again, and align correctly. Kind of like torque steer but whilst braking if that makes sense.
I tried braking hard at speed on different roads and got more or less the same results. However I noticed that it only happens from 70mph upwards, if I brake hard at 40/50/60mph there are no issues.
When I parked up I had a look at my discs and noticed that the offside rear has a groove/cut on the top (see attached) but none of the others seem to have this.
Was wondering if this could be causing the problem?
I’ve booked the car in with BMS Leatherhead for its brake upgrade in a couple weeks.
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Current: 2002 E46 M3
Current: 2005 997 Carrera S
Gone: 2004 R53 Cooper S
Gone: 1998 E31 840Ci Sport
Gone: 2007 Z4 E86 3.0Si Sport
Gone: 2001 Z3 E36/7 2.2i San Remo Individual
Gone: 2015 F21 116d M Sport
Gone: 2012 A3 Sportback 1.2TFSI
Current: 2005 997 Carrera S
Gone: 2004 R53 Cooper S
Gone: 1998 E31 840Ci Sport
Gone: 2007 Z4 E86 3.0Si Sport
Gone: 2001 Z3 E36/7 2.2i San Remo Individual
Gone: 2015 F21 116d M Sport
Gone: 2012 A3 Sportback 1.2TFSI
- Ed Doe
- Senior Member
- Posts: 2198
- Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2014 6:06 pm
- Location: Ashbourne or Frimley
Hard braking - Keeping her straight
That machined indent in the disc is normal and iirc is to mark the minimum thickness of the disc after which it needs replacing. Entirely normal and if you look hard enough it'll be on all the discs.
My money is still on worn bushes and poor alignment!
My money is still on worn bushes and poor alignment!
Carbon Black '07 M Coupe: Intrax 1k2 Coilovers, AP-Racing, Raybestos ST45s, Tillets, Schroth, Vibratechnic, Apex EC7, Strongstrut, Eventuri, H&S, RTD, 4.1FD
Silver Grey '06 3.0si Coupe - SOLD
Silver Grey '06 3.0si Coupe - SOLD
- R60BBA
- Senior Member
- Posts: 1776
- Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2017 7:53 pm
- Location: London, United Kingdom
Hard braking - Keeping her straight
I did the 12 and 6/ 9 and 3 o’clock check and there was very minimal play. I’ll get BMS Leatherhead to inspect the bushes for reassurance but they seem fine.
The car had a fresh set of tyres and full alignment last month so it can’t be that.
Current: 2002 E46 M3
Current: 2005 997 Carrera S
Gone: 2004 R53 Cooper S
Gone: 1998 E31 840Ci Sport
Gone: 2007 Z4 E86 3.0Si Sport
Gone: 2001 Z3 E36/7 2.2i San Remo Individual
Gone: 2015 F21 116d M Sport
Gone: 2012 A3 Sportback 1.2TFSI
Current: 2005 997 Carrera S
Gone: 2004 R53 Cooper S
Gone: 1998 E31 840Ci Sport
Gone: 2007 Z4 E86 3.0Si Sport
Gone: 2001 Z3 E36/7 2.2i San Remo Individual
Gone: 2015 F21 116d M Sport
Gone: 2012 A3 Sportback 1.2TFSI
- cj10jeeper
- Lifer
- Posts: 17846
- Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2007 11:50 am
- Location: Lichfield, England
Hard braking - Keeping her straight
At least you’re narrowing it to a possible rear brake issue
I thought those machine marks are factory balancing of the disc? Perfectly normal though
Your pulling left is you compensating for the brake induced rear steer. My instinct is a rear brake refresh will fix it so hold on until this work is done and see the results.
I thought those machine marks are factory balancing of the disc? Perfectly normal though
Your pulling left is you compensating for the brake induced rear steer. My instinct is a rear brake refresh will fix it so hold on until this work is done and see the results.
Jaguar F-Type 3.0 Supercharged V6 S, Stratus Grey, LSD, Active Exhaust, CF wheels, Performance brakes, Sports seats and mods ongoing
Gone but not forgotten Z4 3.0i SE Roadster ///M front, Red ///M leather seats, Aero sills
Gone but not forgotten Z4 3.0i SE Roadster ///M front, Red ///M leather seats, Aero sills
- patriot66
- Lifer
- Posts: 3478
- Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2015 2:59 am
- Location: Mawdesley, Lancashire
Hard braking - Keeping her straight
That machined indent on the edge of the disc is definitely factory balancing. To be honest with you although there is a fair bit of metal left in them I don't think those discs look in particularly brilliant condition
I'd fit some new discs and pads and bet it makes a world of difference ! I fitted new Brembo discs and pads all round on mine a few weeks ago as I was having all sorts of issues with the MTEC/Red Stuff combo I was running. Now the Brembos have bedded in the difference is night and day....much, much better !
I'd fit some new discs and pads and bet it makes a world of difference ! I fitted new Brembo discs and pads all round on mine a few weeks ago as I was having all sorts of issues with the MTEC/Red Stuff combo I was running. Now the Brembos have bedded in the difference is night and day....much, much better !
Sterling Grey '03 2.5i SE / Infinitas Supercharger / S.M.G / Hardtop / Gloss Black 162s / Bilstein B4s / 3.0i Brakes / DLV De-Cat & Silencer / Rebuilt VANOS / Sonar 2Xcite Lights / Carbon & Alcantara Trim / M-Sport Seats / ...& Side Covers !
- BMWZ4MC
- Lifer
- Posts: 6342
- Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2009 4:24 pm
- Location: Back in the sunshine
Hard braking - Keeping her straight
I use DS2500 on my RS4 and they are a very effective way of stopping 1800kg from enormous speed (with the OEM Brembo BBK). I've not taken it on a track but it stands up to very hard use on country lane blasts.R60BBA wrote: ↑Fri Mar 09, 2018 3:19 pm Okay so after calling around I’ve got a few quotes for replacing discs, pads, lines, sensor and fluid.
- Munich Legends - £700 but £220 if I don’t change lines
- Evolve Automotive - £327
- TWG Automotive - £200
- BMS Leatherhead - £180
- ETA Motorsport - £250
Interestingly Will at TWG did not recommend using EBC Redstuff pads nor Goodridge lines, stating that the pads have poor bite and the lines can leak. Instead he recommended using Ferodo DS2500 pads and HELL lines. (I presume he notified this to me because TWG provide a 1 year warranty on all work done by them and so need to be satisfied that the parts they fit are up to standard.)
- Birds BMW - £350
Anyone had any issues with EBC Redstuff? Or should I take his advice and go with the Ferodos.
(I believe the difference in price between the 2 pads is roughly £100).
I use EBC Bluestuff in my ///M and I've found them perfect for track and road use. Previously I used Yellowstuff and found I could overheat the pads on tight technical tracks.
Z4MC - heavily fettled for track use
Lotus Exige - sensible daily driver on the mods slippery slope
Westfield SEiW - in hibernation
Modified RS4 Avant - back in Blighty
S2000 GT - gone
- R60BBA
- Senior Member
- Posts: 1776
- Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2017 7:53 pm
- Location: London, United Kingdom
Hard braking - Keeping her straight
What was wrong with your Mtec/Redstuff combo if you don’t mind me asking.patriot66 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:23 pm That machined indent on the edge of the disc is definitely factory balancing. To be honest with you although there is a fair bit of metal left in them I don't think those discs look in particularly brilliant condition
I'd fit some new discs and pads and bet it makes a world of difference ! I fitted new Brembo discs and pads all round on mine a few weeks ago as I was having all sorts of issues with the MTEC/Red Stuff combo I was running. Now the Brembos have bedded in the difference is night and day....much, much better !
Current: 2002 E46 M3
Current: 2005 997 Carrera S
Gone: 2004 R53 Cooper S
Gone: 1998 E31 840Ci Sport
Gone: 2007 Z4 E86 3.0Si Sport
Gone: 2001 Z3 E36/7 2.2i San Remo Individual
Gone: 2015 F21 116d M Sport
Gone: 2012 A3 Sportback 1.2TFSI
Current: 2005 997 Carrera S
Gone: 2004 R53 Cooper S
Gone: 1998 E31 840Ci Sport
Gone: 2007 Z4 E86 3.0Si Sport
Gone: 2001 Z3 E36/7 2.2i San Remo Individual
Gone: 2015 F21 116d M Sport
Gone: 2012 A3 Sportback 1.2TFSI
- jack07
- Member
- Posts: 302
- Joined: Sun Jul 12, 2015 6:47 am
Hard braking - Keeping her straight
Hi R60,My threepenneth on this is listen to Ducklakeview,as those front lower wishbone bushes may not appear worn and may be entirely passable at m.o.t.but upgrade them to a polybush and this eliminates the horrible braking wander that ruins these great cars.Then when the polybush bug bites,do change the rear trailing arm front bushes next to tighten things up nicely.Don't be put off the Redstuff pads,as mine have been excellent in every way for the last 20 thousand odd miles,plenty of meat still on them and have not carved into the discs as I expected.There is no discernable wear lip at the disc edge yet so I recommend them and will buy again when the time comes.The only negative I found was the bedding in time being rather longer than usual.Good luck with however you go
This is the car I've been waiting for http://s611.photobucket.com/user/markhorner100/albums
- patriot66
- Lifer
- Posts: 3478
- Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2015 2:59 am
- Location: Mawdesley, Lancashire
Hard braking - Keeping her straight
Red Stuff pads are superb but they just completely overwhelmed the Mtec discs and put that much heat into them the NSF and OSR warped. Had them skimmed on the car and a new set of pads and same again ! Had this combo on 2 previous but different cars and the same happened. Once bitten twice shy so maybe I should've known better than to try them on the Zed. I have my doubts that this would have happened with a better quality disc like the Brembos.R60BBA wrote: ↑Mon Mar 12, 2018 1:52 amWhat was wrong with your Mtec/Redstuff combo if you don’t mind me asking.patriot66 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:23 pm That machined indent on the edge of the disc is definitely factory balancing. To be honest with you although there is a fair bit of metal left in them I don't think those discs look in particularly brilliant condition
I'd fit some new discs and pads and bet it makes a world of difference ! I fitted new Brembo discs and pads all round on mine a few weeks ago as I was having all sorts of issues with the MTEC/Red Stuff combo I was running. Now the Brembos have bedded in the difference is night and day....much, much better !
Sterling Grey '03 2.5i SE / Infinitas Supercharger / S.M.G / Hardtop / Gloss Black 162s / Bilstein B4s / 3.0i Brakes / DLV De-Cat & Silencer / Rebuilt VANOS / Sonar 2Xcite Lights / Carbon & Alcantara Trim / M-Sport Seats / ...& Side Covers !
- R60BBA
- Senior Member
- Posts: 1776
- Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2017 7:53 pm
- Location: London, United Kingdom
Hard braking - Keeping her straight
Thanks for your input buddy.jack07 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:05 am Hi R60,My threepenneth on this is listen to Ducklakeview,as those front lower wishbone bushes may not appear worn and may be entirely passable at m.o.t.but upgrade them to a polybush and this eliminates the horrible braking wander that ruins these great cars.Then when the polybush bug bites,do change the rear trailing arm front bushes next to tighten things up nicely.Don't be put off the Redstuff pads,as mine have been excellent in every way for the last 20 thousand odd miles,plenty of meat still on them and have not carved into the discs as I expected.There is no discernable wear lip at the disc edge yet so I recommend them and will buy again when the time comes.The only negative I found was the bedding in time being rather longer than usual.Good luck with however you go
I will get BMS to check the bushes when I put her in for brake service. But if the problem goes away after the brake service then I will change the bushes when required.
Current: 2002 E46 M3
Current: 2005 997 Carrera S
Gone: 2004 R53 Cooper S
Gone: 1998 E31 840Ci Sport
Gone: 2007 Z4 E86 3.0Si Sport
Gone: 2001 Z3 E36/7 2.2i San Remo Individual
Gone: 2015 F21 116d M Sport
Gone: 2012 A3 Sportback 1.2TFSI
Current: 2005 997 Carrera S
Gone: 2004 R53 Cooper S
Gone: 1998 E31 840Ci Sport
Gone: 2007 Z4 E86 3.0Si Sport
Gone: 2001 Z3 E36/7 2.2i San Remo Individual
Gone: 2015 F21 116d M Sport
Gone: 2012 A3 Sportback 1.2TFSI
- R60BBA
- Senior Member
- Posts: 1776
- Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2017 7:53 pm
- Location: London, United Kingdom
Hard braking - Keeping her straight
Cheers for the heads up, I was initially going to go for the Brembo’s but noticed that only the fronts were drilled/slottedpatriot66 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:36 amRed Stuff pads are superb but they just completely overwhelmed the Mtec discs and put that much heat into them the NSF and OSR warped. Had them skimmed on the car and a new set of pads and same again ! Had this combo on 2 previous but different cars and the same happened. Once bitten twice shy so maybe I should've known better than to try them on the Zed. I have my doubts that this would have happened with a better quality disc like the Brembos.R60BBA wrote: ↑Mon Mar 12, 2018 1:52 amWhat was wrong with your Mtec/Redstuff combo if you don’t mind me asking.patriot66 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:23 pm That machined indent on the edge of the disc is definitely factory balancing. To be honest with you although there is a fair bit of metal left in them I don't think those discs look in particularly brilliant condition
I'd fit some new discs and pads and bet it makes a world of difference ! I fitted new Brembo discs and pads all round on mine a few weeks ago as I was having all sorts of issues with the MTEC/Red Stuff combo I was running. Now the Brembos have bedded in the difference is night and day....much, much better !
Current: 2002 E46 M3
Current: 2005 997 Carrera S
Gone: 2004 R53 Cooper S
Gone: 1998 E31 840Ci Sport
Gone: 2007 Z4 E86 3.0Si Sport
Gone: 2001 Z3 E36/7 2.2i San Remo Individual
Gone: 2015 F21 116d M Sport
Gone: 2012 A3 Sportback 1.2TFSI
Current: 2005 997 Carrera S
Gone: 2004 R53 Cooper S
Gone: 1998 E31 840Ci Sport
Gone: 2007 Z4 E86 3.0Si Sport
Gone: 2001 Z3 E36/7 2.2i San Remo Individual
Gone: 2015 F21 116d M Sport
Gone: 2012 A3 Sportback 1.2TFSI
- ph001
- Lifer
- Posts: 3870
- Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2016 5:53 pm
- Location: N. Yorkshire.
Hard braking - Keeping her straight
http://www.ppcgb.com/products/performance-friction-z-rated-brake-pads-055810
- R60BBA
- Senior Member
- Posts: 1776
- Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2017 7:53 pm
- Location: London, United Kingdom
Hard braking - Keeping her straight
Thanks but I just ordered the Redstuff
Current: 2002 E46 M3
Current: 2005 997 Carrera S
Gone: 2004 R53 Cooper S
Gone: 1998 E31 840Ci Sport
Gone: 2007 Z4 E86 3.0Si Sport
Gone: 2001 Z3 E36/7 2.2i San Remo Individual
Gone: 2015 F21 116d M Sport
Gone: 2012 A3 Sportback 1.2TFSI
Current: 2005 997 Carrera S
Gone: 2004 R53 Cooper S
Gone: 1998 E31 840Ci Sport
Gone: 2007 Z4 E86 3.0Si Sport
Gone: 2001 Z3 E36/7 2.2i San Remo Individual
Gone: 2015 F21 116d M Sport
Gone: 2012 A3 Sportback 1.2TFSI
- ph001
- Lifer
- Posts: 3870
- Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2016 5:53 pm
- Location: N. Yorkshire.
Hard braking - Keeping her straight
No worries.... it was first page on Google to be fair! For day to day driving the Redstuff should do the job.
- R60BBA
- Senior Member
- Posts: 1776
- Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2017 7:53 pm
- Location: London, United Kingdom
Hard braking - Keeping her straight
Just got quoted £30 by BMW Borehamwood for front and rear brake pad sensors.
Is there anywhere I can get these cheaper?
Preferably OEM...
Is there anywhere I can get these cheaper?
Preferably OEM...
Current: 2002 E46 M3
Current: 2005 997 Carrera S
Gone: 2004 R53 Cooper S
Gone: 1998 E31 840Ci Sport
Gone: 2007 Z4 E86 3.0Si Sport
Gone: 2001 Z3 E36/7 2.2i San Remo Individual
Gone: 2015 F21 116d M Sport
Gone: 2012 A3 Sportback 1.2TFSI
Current: 2005 997 Carrera S
Gone: 2004 R53 Cooper S
Gone: 1998 E31 840Ci Sport
Gone: 2007 Z4 E86 3.0Si Sport
Gone: 2001 Z3 E36/7 2.2i San Remo Individual
Gone: 2015 F21 116d M Sport
Gone: 2012 A3 Sportback 1.2TFSI