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Doing an Intake Valve Clean - any tips?

Specific discussion about the E89 2009 Z4 (sDrive35is, sDrive35i, sDrive30i, sDrive23i)
Busterboo
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Doing an Intake Valve Clean - any tips?

Post by Busterboo » Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:41 pm

A tip? Don't let any walnut shell debris into any part of the engine.
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Doing an Intake Valve Clean - any tips?

Post by Smartbear » Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:01 pm

scootr wrote: Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:41 pm I'd bet you might be able to turn her over by hand without the plugs? Worth a try, just grab the fan and turn once the plugs are out... you are replacing plugs now too? I was going to suggest you take pics of everything you are going to remove - for yourself. Having watched the manifold removal on line I see a bunch of stuff needs disconnecting. That can get confusing for not much DIYer guy upon reassembly :thumbsup:
I think the fan’s electric & not coupled to the engine mechanically? :?
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Doing an Intake Valve Clean - any tips?

Post by scootr » Thu Feb 13, 2020 5:59 pm

Smartbear wrote: Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:01 pm
scootr wrote: Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:41 pm I'd bet you might be able to turn her over by hand without the plugs? Worth a try, just grab the fan and turn once the plugs are out... you are replacing plugs now too? I was going to suggest you take pics of everything you are going to remove - for yourself. Having watched the manifold removal on line I see a bunch of stuff needs disconnecting. That can get confusing for not much DIYer guy upon reassembly :thumbsup:
I think the fan’s electric & not coupled to the engine mechanically? :?
Rob

You could be right... I'm so old school I learned mechanics when things were... well, mechanical. :D
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Doing an Intake Valve Clean - any tips?

Post by enzed4 » Fri Feb 14, 2020 5:56 am

Yal wrote: Thu Feb 13, 2020 5:43 am I don't mind doing my own wrenching as long as I have a good source of info.
Likewise.
Busterboo wrote: Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:41 pm A tip? Don't let any walnut shell debris into any part of the engine.
Not walnut blasting it. But the advice applies for any of the gunk left over. Some info says it will just burn off in the cylinder (or blow throw the exhaust), but I'd prefer it not to go through the cats or cylinders so will do my best to get each intake valve port clean & dry before moving onto the next ones (and will cover the open ports while working on the closed ones).
scootr wrote: Thu Feb 13, 2020 5:59 pm
Smartbear wrote: Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:01 pm
scootr wrote: Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:41 pm I'd bet you might be able to turn her over by hand without the plugs? Worth a try, just grab the fan and turn once the plugs are out... you are replacing plugs now too? I was going to suggest you take pics of everything you are going to remove - for yourself. Having watched the manifold removal on line I see a bunch of stuff needs disconnecting. That can get confusing for not much DIYer guy upon reassembly :thumbsup:
I think the fan’s electric & not coupled to the engine mechanically? :?
Rob

You could be right... I'm so old school I learned mechanics when things were... well, mechanical. :D
I suspect Rob is right, but I might look into other ways to move the valves to the closed position. It would be good if there was a 'mechanical' way to do it (without any special tools) rather than energising the starter motor to kick it over until you've got the valves just right.
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Doing an Intake Valve Clean - any tips?

Post by Smartbear » Fri Feb 14, 2020 5:59 am

What medium are you using if it’s not walnut shell? :?
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Doing an Intake Valve Clean - any tips?

Post by enzed4 » Fri Feb 14, 2020 7:53 am

Smartbear wrote: Fri Feb 14, 2020 5:59 am What medium are you using if it’s not walnut shell? :?
Rob
CRC Intake Valve Cleaner. Dissolves the carbon buildup. The instructions say to spray it into the throttle body (past the MAF sensor) with the engine running blah blah, but I do not want stuff going through the engine and cats, so the other method is similar to walnut blasting (remove the intake manifold and to access the back of the valves directly) except you spray the cleaner instead of blasting with any media.
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Doing an Intake Valve Clean - any tips?

Post by Chippie » Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:19 am

enzed4 wrote: Fri Feb 14, 2020 7:53 am CRC Intake Valve Cleaner. Dissolves the carbon buildup. The instructions say to spray it into the throttle body (past the MAF sensor) with the engine running blah blah, but I do not want stuff going through the engine and cats, so the other method is similar to walnut blasting (remove the intake manifold and to access the back of the valves directly) except you spray the cleaner instead of blasting with any media.
I think spraying in while the engine is running you would have to use the intake cleaner on a regular basis to keep the values clean, say every 1k miles, it does a good job of removing the carbon buildup but to remove large deposits they need to be submerged for a while to dissolve it,
If you aren’t using any medium to blast the valves you will need some sharp tools to scrape the carbon off once it’s been softened, the cleaner turns it to a tar like consistency, you would be better getting 2 or 3 cans as I found the reaction stopped after a while and had to keep re applying even with using the walnuts to remove all the deposits
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Doing an Intake Valve Clean - any tips?

Post by enzed4 » Fri Feb 14, 2020 12:07 pm

Chippie wrote: Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:19 am
enzed4 wrote: Fri Feb 14, 2020 7:53 am CRC Intake Valve Cleaner. Dissolves the carbon buildup. The instructions say to spray it into the throttle body (past the MAF sensor) with the engine running blah blah, but I do not want stuff going through the engine and cats, so the other method is similar to walnut blasting (remove the intake manifold and to access the back of the valves directly) except you spray the cleaner instead of blasting with any media.
I think spraying in while the engine is running you would have to use the intake cleaner on a regular basis to keep the values clean, say every 1k miles, it does a good job of removing the carbon buildup but to remove large deposits they need to be submerged for a while to dissolve it,
If you aren’t using any medium to blast the valves you will need some sharp tools to scrape the carbon off once it’s been softened, the cleaner turns it to a tar like consistency, you would be better getting 2 or 3 cans as I found the reaction stopped after a while and had to keep re applying even with using the walnuts to remove all the deposits
If using the product while the engine is running the manufacturer recommends every 16,000km (or sooner if symptoms occur) which seems an admission that its not as effective used that way. I have 2 cans of the intake cleaner and 2 cans of brake cleaner, a syringe and tubing, and a false sense of confidence :lol:
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Doing an Intake Valve Clean - any tips?

Post by scootr » Fri Feb 14, 2020 3:17 pm

I'm confused as to what good spaying the cleaner into the intake will do since that airflow does not wash over the backside of the intake valve where the unwanted deposit is accumulated.
The you tube video linked showed the intake removed and the solvent working well to completely dissolve the deposits.


Also google search reveals you can rotate the engine crankshaft with a big ratchet on the (21-22mm) bolt on the largest pulley on the engine with the plugs out. Manual transmissions need to be in neutral.
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Doing an Intake Valve Clean - any tips?

Post by Smartbear » Fri Feb 14, 2020 4:05 pm

scootr wrote: Fri Feb 14, 2020 3:17 pm I'm confused as to what good spaying the cleaner into the intake will do since that airflow does not wash over the backside of the intake valve where the unwanted deposit is accumulated.
The you tube video linked showed the intake removed and the solvent working well to completely dissolve the deposits.


Also google search reveals you can rotate the engine crankshaft with a big ratchet on the (21-22mm) bolt on the largest pulley on the engine with the plugs out. Manual transmissions need to be in neutral.
Surely if the valves being cleaned are fully closed then the cleaner will have access to every part of the surface of those valves. What part would be inaccessible? :?
Rob
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Doing an Intake Valve Clean - any tips?

Post by scootr » Fri Feb 14, 2020 4:22 pm

I was referring to the advice to spray the cleaner into a running engine. ( sorry if I wasn't clear, it's early here, not enough coffee yet :) )
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Doing an Intake Valve Clean - any tips?

Post by Chippie » Fri Feb 14, 2020 4:22 pm

Smartbear wrote: Fri Feb 14, 2020 4:05 pm
scootr wrote: Fri Feb 14, 2020 3:17 pm I'm confused as to what good spaying the cleaner into the intake will do since that airflow does not wash over the backside of the intake valve where the unwanted deposit is accumulated.
The you tube video linked showed the intake removed and the solvent working well to completely dissolve the deposits.


Also google search reveals you can rotate the engine crankshaft with a big ratchet on the (21-22mm) bolt on the largest pulley on the engine with the plugs out. Manual transmissions need to be in neutral.
Surely if the valves being cleaned are fully closed then the cleaner will have access to every part of the surface of those valves. What part would be inaccessible? :?
Rob
I think he mean spraying with the engine running, as the air flow will hit the front and side’s of the valves and not the back, but if done on a regular basis then surely it would keep the valves clean as the oil/carbon deposits also flow with the air past the valves hitting mainly the front and side’s of the valves
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Doing an Intake Valve Clean - any tips?

Post by Smartbear » Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:39 pm

Chippie wrote: Fri Feb 14, 2020 4:22 pm
Smartbear wrote: Fri Feb 14, 2020 4:05 pm
scootr wrote: Fri Feb 14, 2020 3:17 pm I'm confused as to what good spaying the cleaner into the intake will do since that airflow does not wash over the backside of the intake valve where the unwanted deposit is accumulated.
The you tube video linked showed the intake removed and the solvent working well to completely dissolve the deposits.


Also google search reveals you can rotate the engine crankshaft with a big ratchet on the (21-22mm) bolt on the largest pulley on the engine with the plugs out. Manual transmissions need to be in neutral.
Surely if the valves being cleaned are fully closed then the cleaner will have access to every part of the surface of those valves. What part would be inaccessible? :?
Rob
I think he mean spraying with the engine running, as the air flow will hit the front and side’s of the valves and not the back, but if done on a regular basis then surely it would keep the valves clean as the oil/carbon deposits also flow with the air past the valves hitting mainly the front and side’s of the valves
I think the oil/carbon residue is mainly deposited during the valve overlap phase of combustion with the direct injection engines, so doesn’t coat the valves in the same way.
It’s just air hitting the valves from the inlet manifold (with a slight amount from the ccv just for good luck) :thumbsup:
Rob
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Doing an Intake Valve Clean - any tips?

Post by Chippie » Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:57 pm

Smartbear wrote: Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:39 pm
Chippie wrote: Fri Feb 14, 2020 4:22 pm
Smartbear wrote: Fri Feb 14, 2020 4:05 pm Surely if the valves being cleaned are fully closed then the cleaner will have access to every part of the surface of those valves. What part would be inaccessible? :?
Rob
I think he mean spraying with the engine running, as the air flow will hit the front and side’s of the valves and not the back, but if done on a regular basis then surely it would keep the valves clean as the oil/carbon deposits also flow with the air past the valves hitting mainly the front and side’s of the valves
I think the oil/carbon residue is mainly deposited during the valve overlap phase of combustion with the direct injection engines, so doesn’t coat the valves in the same way.
It’s just air hitting the valves from the inlet manifold (with a slight amount from the ccv just for good luck) :thumbsup:
Rob
👍
A quick google search found this:

Although intake valve deposits are a normal by-product of combustion, they can build up quicker if the valve guides or seals are worn, or in vehicles with variable valve timing, where the valves are open for longer and are therefore exposed to more carbon particles.
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Doing an Intake Valve Clean - any tips?

Post by mcbutler » Sat Feb 15, 2020 2:17 pm

On a direct injection engine its considered good practice to fit a baffled oil catch can, mishimoto make the best.
You can buy it as a kit with all hoses etc.
In a nutshell the catch can is a small 'can' with a filter to catch oil mist and a baffle to stop 'slop' if your driving it like a grand theft auto muppet.
It connects between the crankcase breather and the inlet manifold and reduces the amount of crankcase oil mist entering the inlet manifold, this mist and crud is what builds up on your valves.
The amount of crud is relevant to engine wear and age so the older the car/engine gets the more useful the can is.

See my post here viewtopic.php?f=23&t=119149&p=1705789#p1705789
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