Front Brake Upgrade

[mcbutler]

Unless your tracking the car its overkill, guy at my local indy races BMW, I asked him about upgrading calipers, discs he said "dont waste your money just fit Ferodo ds2500 pads.....
Give them a go before you splash out for unneeded hardware....

Are those pads for the 300 or the 330 front? Or do you think that means putting them on both rear 270 and front 300 if like me currently I'm stock s20i brakes?

On all 4 wheels you NEVER mix pads on a road car

[Player 1]

Unless your tracking the car its overkill, guy at my local indy races BMW, I asked him about upgrading calipers, discs he said "dont waste your money just fit Ferodo ds2500 pads.....
Give them a go before you splash out for unneeded hardware....

I've not tried different compound pads on the Z4 however have done on my old Vx220 which has seen plenty of track use.
My opinion is that in changing the pad compound you're changing the operating window to work better at higher temperature, therefore last longer before any fade is noticed and give a better bite when warm. What they didn't do however was make you stop any quicker in optimum conditions.

The larger discs and calipers however, feel noticeably stronger all the time, in any condition and I believe that's what you're paying for.

[BeemerGuy]

Unless your tracking the car its overkill, guy at my local indy races BMW, I asked him about upgrading calipers, discs he said "dont waste your money just fit Ferodo ds2500 pads.....
Give them a go before you splash out for unneeded hardware....

Are those pads for the 300 or the 330 front? Or do you think that means putting them on both rear 270 and front 300 if like me currently I'm stock s20i brakes?

On all 4 wheels you NEVER mix pads on a road car

Ok thanks.

So for those Ferido Racing pads all round it would cost approx £350 I guess but I cant see a rear equivalent set..?

Going for the front upgrade with:
Bosch 330 disks
Bosch calipers
Bosch warning contacts wear warning
Ferodo premier eco friction
ABS splash covers
Rear :
Ferodo premier eco friction

The cost for the above at today's autodoc prices is £579

Thoughts?

[Pbondar]

Are those pads for the 300 or the 330 front? Or do you think that means putting them on both rear 270 and front 300 if like me currently I'm stock s20i brakes?

On all 4 wheels you NEVER mix pads on a road car

Ok thanks.

So for those Ferido Racing pads all round it would cost approx £350 I guess but I cant see a rear equivalent set..?

Going for the front upgrade with:
Bosch 330 disks
Bosch calipers
Bosch warning contacts wear warning
Ferodo premier eco friction
ABS splash covers
Rear :
Ferodo premier eco friction

The cost for the above at today's autodoc prices is £579

Thoughts?

Seems like a reasonable decision..you can over think over agonise these things..

[mcbutler]

Also what is the difference between a 1 piston and a floating caliper? Do either work just as well? Is there a big benefit in going aluminium?

Thanks agsin

Your mixing slightly apples and oranges...

Pedantically there are two types of construct...sliding / floating calipers that has piston or pistons on one side and slides on a pins to push the opposing pad onto the other side of the disc..

Opposed calipers have match pair of piston or pistons on both sides of the disc and use both sides to clamp the disc.

There is no intrinsic benefit to an alloy vs steel calipers except a fractional reduction in unstrung weight about 0.5-1kg in 50kg ish of total unsprung weight
Trendy brakes are made out if aluminium in part because it’s much easier to machine than steel plus the ‘sexy’ aspect.

When it comes to pistons you can have any from 1 to 4 pistons on either one side with a floating caliper or 2-8 pistons with opposing action calipers

For street use it’s arguable that a well designed and adequately size single floating caliper and discs provides adequate capabilities

For ‘sexy’ purposes you can fill your boots with as many pistons and size of discs limited only by the caliper to inside wheel rim clearance..

As usual for the manufacturer it’s a cost/performance/marketing trade off..your values may very.

So as previously stated the 20i brake system on the E89 has attracted little criticism for road use...the 28i adds something to an adequate performer

Aluminium (one of the best metallic heat conductors) calipers also dissipate heat far more effectively than steel (one of the worst metallic heat conductors.
But as phondbar says don't overthink it just do your research. As for drilled discs its really a big no, slotted are far better and no cracking risk, which is why you will hardly ever see them on track cars.
Always puzzled me why muy C63 came with drilled discs when pretty much everyone i asked tells me they are not good for high performance cars driven hard..
I think the price you are paying is brilliant for that whole kit.....

[BeemerGuy]

I
Also what is the difference between a 1 piston and a floating caliper? Do either work just as well? Is there a big benefit in going aluminium?

Thanks agsin

Your mixing slightly apples and oranges...

Pedantically there are two types of construct...sliding / floating calipers that has piston or pistons on one side and slides on a pins to push the opposing pad onto the other side of the disc..

Opposed calipers have match pair of piston or pistons on both sides of the disc and use both sides to clamp the disc.

There is no intrinsic benefit to an alloy vs steel calipers except a fractional reduction in unstrung weight about 0.5-1kg in 50kg ish of total unsprung weight
Trendy brakes are made out if aluminium in part because it’s much easier to machine than steel plus the ‘sexy’ aspect.

When it comes to pistons you can have any from 1 to 4 pistons on either one side with a floating caliper or 2-8 pistons with opposing action calipers

For street use it’s arguable that a well designed and adequately size single floating caliper and discs provides adequate capabilities

For ‘sexy’ purposes you can fill your boots with as many pistons and size of discs limited only by the caliper to inside wheel rim clearance..

As usual for the manufacturer it’s a cost/performance/marketing trade off..your values may very.

So as previously stated the 20i brake system on the E89 has attracted little criticism for road use...the 28i adds something to an adequate performer

Aluminium (one of the best metallic heat conductors) calipers also dissipate heat far more effectively than steel (one of the worst metallic heat conductors.
But as phondbar says don't overthink it just do your research. As for drilled discs its really a big no, slotted are far better and no cracking risk, which is why you will hardly ever see them on track cars.
Always puzzled me why muy C63 came with drilled discs when pretty much everyone i asked tells me they are not good for high performance cars driven hard..
I think the price you are paying is brilliant for that whole kit.....

I guess I'd also need new caliper brackets, and guide sleeves and bolts etc, or would the existing parts from.the 300 setup be ok, or do I need all new parts?

When the disk size increases from 300 to 330 does the caliper bracket need to increase in size too?

Do I need to buy new guide sleeves, and brake accessory kits too?

It's hard to work what I to buy as some parts clearly say 330 or 300.....confused.com

[Pbondar]

No just buy the bits specified it’s all bolt on using existing remaining parts

[BeemerGuy]

No just buy the bits specified it’s all bolt on using existing remaining parts

Ok thanks, that's great...will speak to the garage Monday and see what they will charge, if they're still working and hopefully press on asap. This place is grrrreeeeaaattttt thanks again!

[BeemerGuy]

Does anyone know what the "surcharge" is for on Autodoc, or what they call the "core charge" on the, what must be sister site, www.onlinecarparts.co.uk. The seem to just add on another £100 so no apparent reason with no explanation of what it is - any ideas?

[R.E92]

It'll be a refund you get when you return the parts you take off your car. If you aren't replacing like for like then you'll probably fall foul of that and not get the core refund.

It's useful on parts like calipers where if you get a seized retaining bolt or stuck piston you can send them the dud part after the work and you get your £100 back as they will refurb your old part and sell it. Not so useful on upgrades.

[BeemerGuy]

It'll be a refund you get when you return the parts you take off your car. If you aren't replacing like for like then you'll probably fall foul of that and not get the core refund.

It's useful on parts like calipers where if you get a seized retaining bolt or stuck piston you can send them the dud part after the work and you get your £100 back as they will refurb your old part and sell it. Not so useful on upgrades.

Thanks, well at least it's not totally random. So probably there's nothing I can do except try and ebay the existing parts callipers/disks that have only done 15K?

[BeemerGuy]

Finally, I hope, the only matching brand pads I can get are HELLA - are these decent? £45 rear, and £46 front.....the TEXTAR and in fact any other matching seemed to front and not the back or vice versa.

[Pbondar]

It'll be a refund you get when you return the parts you take off your car. If you aren't replacing like for like then you'll probably fall foul of that and not get the core refund.

It's useful on parts like calipers where if you get a seized retaining bolt or stuck piston you can send them the dud part after the work and you get your £100 back as they will refurb your old part and sell it. Not so useful on upgrades.

Thanks, well at least it's not totally random. So probably there's nothing I can do except try and ebay the existing parts callipers/disks that have only done 15K?

I suggest you send the old calipers back, that will be the core charge and I'm sure they will process them!

If you ask it may be more complicated..

[BeemerGuy]

It'll be a refund you get when you return the parts you take off your car. If you aren't replacing like for like then you'll probably fall foul of that and not get the core refund.

It's useful on parts like calipers where if you get a seized retaining bolt or stuck piston you can send them the dud part after the work and you get your £100 back as they will refurb your old part and sell it. Not so useful on upgrades.

Thanks, well at least it's not totally random. So probably there's nothing I can do except try and ebay the existing parts callipers/disks that have only done 15K?

I suggest you send the old calipers back, that will be the core charge and I'm sure they will process them!

If you ask it may be more complicated..

thanks

[BeemerGuy]

No just buy the bits specified it’s all bolt on using existing remaining parts

I wish the calliper carriers were the same , but they're not...new 339 carriers are needed too...oen34116769097 bah