LSD

[tintoverano]

I don't want to hijack the "true M car" thread, so opening this one since LSD is coming up there frequently

has anybody considered this or any other similar solution: Quaife BMW Z4 ATB https://shop.quaife.co.uk/quaife-bmw-z4 ... ferentials?

[DOOM]

Have one of these in my Z4C.
Don't really know how the car drove without it as I bought it this way.
Works fine for me, though.

[Scooba_Steve]

Makes a massive difference to the E85/6 so imagine the impact on the E89 would be just as good. Literally transforms the car.

[Pbondar]

I don't want to hijack the "true M car" thread, so opening this one since LSD is coming up there frequently

has anybody considered this or any other similar solution: Quaife BMW Z4 ATB https://shop.quaife.co.uk/quaife-bmw-z4 ... ferentials?

Let me know your thoughts..might be this years XMAS present to moi/The Yellow Peril!!

[Player 1]

To be perfectly honest, I don't think it'll make quite the transformative difference envisaged when compared to an E85. The E89 has a torque vectoring system that applies the brake to the spinning wheel, forcing power to go the the one with traction, simulating an LSD. It isn't as reactive as a proper differential, but is effective and consistent.

[Pbondar]

To be perfectly honest, I don't think it'll make quite the transformative difference envisaged when compared to an E85. The E89 has a torque vectoring system that applies the brake to the spinning wheel, forcing power to go the the one with traction, simulating an LSD. It isn't as reactive as a proper differential, but is effective and consistent.

I don't know myself, hence my questions, and they would say that wouldn't they, but Bird's who do all BMW Quaife LSDs say..
http://www.birdsauto.com/sites/default/ ... 928336.pdf

[Player 1]

To be perfectly honest, I don't think it'll make quite the transformative difference envisaged when compared to an E85. The E89 has a torque vectoring system that applies the brake to the spinning wheel, forcing power to go the the one with traction, simulating an LSD. It isn't as reactive as a proper differential, but is effective and consistent.

I don't know myself, hence my questions, and they would say that wouldn't they, but Bird's who do all BMW Quaife LSDs say..
http://www.birdsauto.com/sites/default/ ... 928336.pdf

They do touch on the simulated LSD in the article calling it inefficient. Though as you say, they would say that!
Have you ever tried to powerslide both an E85 and an E89? I have and while the open diff in the E85 makes it barely controllable and frankly downright dangerous, the E89's simulated differential makes it easy to hold a slide, increase it with extra throttle or straighten up with less throttle.
Having also tried numerous other cars with proper limited slip differentials, I don't think there's much in it between the simulated LSD and a proper one in an oversteer situation once the car is sideways. Just as it starts to go however, a proper LSD is noticeably quicker to react whereas in the E89 there's something of a will it/won't it 'pause' before settling into a slide, sorry if that sounds a bit vague as it's hard to describe and the moment must only last a few hundredths of a second! Once you learn to trust the system however it soon feels normal.
(All conducted on private grounds, of course!)

In a standing start, I could see there being a definite advantage to a LSD opposed to the virtual one as applying brakes can only be slower than a clutch diverting power. Personally, this isn't really something I'd be too worried about as I've far too much mechanical sympathy to dump a clutch in any car and nail it

I should say, I'm not trying to knock Quaife's product. They do make very good differentials and it'd be an upgrade over the virtual one for sure. I just don't think it'd be such a big difference as it is when going from a car with an open differential and no vectoring, as it is in the E85.

[Pbondar]

Player 1

Well, I have to confess that my testicles are not as full as they used to be, plus years on motorbikes, which translates into: I normally don't try and provoke the Z4 to break traction, I wait till I'm well past the apex before flooring it..

With only 280BHP and sticky Continental Sport tyres I'm not sure whether you can make it brake traction on a dry road once its rolling..

I agree that modern electronics do a great job, just can't resist twiddling with my favourite toy..

Since I won't be going for a 35i(s) I'm limited to just 280 BHP, so have to make up for it by going around the corners faster..

Your observations are illuminating.. I do these tricks in the snow at low speed..but not on tarmac at higher speed..private testing areas exempted!

[Player 1]

I have to say, I do like the look of your car If twiddling is of interest, for much less cost than the differential and a result that's far more relevant to normal, enjoyable driving. May I suggest robbing the E90 series M3 for suspension parts? Here's my thread on doing so:
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=108512
(Will go very well indeed with your roll bars)

Apologies for being somewhat off topic!

[Pbondar]

I have to say, I do like the look of your car If twiddling is of interest, for much less cost than the differential and a result that's far more relevant to normal, enjoyable driving. May I suggest robbing the E90 series M3 for suspension parts? Here's my thread on doing so:
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=108512
(Will go very well indeed with your roll bars)


Apologies for being somewhat off topic!

Yes I looked at it, but the issue on the bracket for the headlamp sensor threw me..I don't have proper facilities at home eg ramp / jacks /proper garage so rely on my tame local garage, where I'm into simple swaps not fabrications etc..otherwise maybe..

I have to say with the H&R roll bars and the B8 shocks on existing MSport springs and 235/40 17 front tyres it handles very very nicely on my private proving ground from Moffat to Selkirk!

[R60BBA]

I don't want to hijack the "true M car" thread, so opening this one since LSD is coming up there frequently

has anybody considered this or any other similar solution: Quaife BMW Z4 ATB https://shop.quaife.co.uk/quaife-bmw-z4 ... ferentials?

Putting a Quaife LSD in a non-LSD car is expensive. Not to mention you will probably lose most of that money come resale.

Unless you’re drifting/tracking the car I really wouldn’t bother.

[buzyg]

Have you ever tried to powerslide both an E85 and an E89? I have and while the open diff in the E85 makes it barely controllable and frankly downright dangerous, the E89's simulated differential makes it easy to hold a slide, increase it with extra throttle or straighten up with less throttle.
Having also tried numerous other cars with proper limited slip differentials, I don't think there's much in it between the simulated LSD and a proper one in an oversteer situation once the car is sideways.

In a standing start, I could see there being a definite advantage to a LSD opposed to the virtual one as applying brakes can only be slower than a clutch diverting power. Personally, this isn't really something I'd be too worried about as I've far too much mechanical sympathy to dump a clutch in any car and nail it

Says he sideways in his E89 with the computers and brakes desperately try to keep it all looking cool and in control.

[Player 1]

Have you ever tried to powerslide both an E85 and an E89? I have and while the open diff in the E85 makes it barely controllable and frankly downright dangerous, the E89's simulated differential makes it easy to hold a slide, increase it with extra throttle or straighten up with less throttle.
Having also tried numerous other cars with proper limited slip differentials, I don't think there's much in it between the simulated LSD and a proper one in an oversteer situation once the car is sideways.

In a standing start, I could see there being a definite advantage to a LSD opposed to the virtual one as applying brakes can only be slower than a clutch diverting power. Personally, this isn't really something I'd be too worried about as I've far too much mechanical sympathy to dump a clutch in any car and nail it

Says he sideways in his E89 with the computers and brakes desperately try to keep it all looking cool and in control.

A gentle slide and smashing maximum torque through the driveline in an instant are very different things

[GuidoK]

Putting a Quaife LSD in a non-LSD car is expensive. Not to mention you will probably lose most of that money come resale.

Unless you’re drifting/tracking the car I really wouldn’t bother.

I think that a Quaife diff holds it's value better than the average car.....

[R60BBA]

Putting a Quaife LSD in a non-LSD car is expensive. Not to mention you will probably lose most of that money come resale.

Unless you’re drifting/tracking the car I really wouldn’t bother.

I think that a Quaife diff holds it's value better than the average car.....

Lol that’s not saying much.