M5 M6 brakes on Z4 --conversion?

Specific discussion about the E89 2009 Z4 (sDrive35is, sDrive35i, sDrive30i, sDrive23i)
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Valor1
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M5 M6 brakes on Z4 --conversion?

Post by Valor1 » Fri Apr 05, 2019 2:21 am

Player 1 wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:48 am
Regarding brackets, the guys in Belguim made up a CAD drawing of each one, 3D printed them to test fit before having a set properly machined.
Everyone else I've seen has done something similar to that and was something I looked into before selling the set I had, possible there's a small market there? You will also have to check your inner wheel diameter as some 19'' wheels won't clear the 400mm disc/caliper!

This is the Russian car I meant earlier;
https://www.drive2.com/r/bmw/z4/915819/
Thank you for all the great information! Much appreciated! Looking forward to this brake project )

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M5 M6 brakes on Z4 --conversion?

Post by Jembo » Fri Apr 05, 2019 8:08 am

Interesting thread & earlier opinions, great exploration, especially the division of opinion whether it’s truly beneficial for a road car where I believe those against aren’t considering one area of (to me) massive benefit.

I often drive on German Autobhans, where you need to be constantly on your guard for a rapid ‘shave’ of speed.

It’s the amount of ‘leg/foot’ pressure that’s key, regardless whether it’s a rapid UK 70-30 deceleration or DE big +100’s stomach churner.

On the two ‘little league’ brake upgrades I’ve done, to me it’s the greater & more effortless speed shaving that makes such a difference... where you exert far less braking pressure for the same effect...meaning you remain in greater control of the car
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M5 M6 brakes on Z4 --conversion?

Post by buzyg » Fri Apr 05, 2019 8:49 am

Jembo wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 8:08 am
Interesting thread & earlier opinions, great exploration, especially the division of opinion whether it’s truly beneficial for a road car where I believe those against aren’t considering one area of (to me) massive benefit.

I often drive on German Autobhans, where you need to be constantly on your guard for a rapid ‘shave’ of speed.

It’s the amount of ‘leg/foot’ pressure that’s key, regardless whether it’s a rapid UK 70-30 deceleration or DE big +100’s stomach churner.

On the two ‘little league’ brake upgrades I’ve done, to me it’s the greater & more effortless speed shaving that makes such a difference... where you exert far less braking pressure for the same effect...meaning you remain in greater control of the car
Not sure that I agree completely with you there. Fitting larger brakes to a car without changing the OEM suspension set up is very unlikely, to improve the handling/contol of the car, in any way. However the small loss in handling is more than made up for by the increase in safety and driver confidence, due to knowing you can probably stop quicker than the guy in front. So the feeling of control is certainly improved. :wink:
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M5 M6 brakes on Z4 --conversion?

Post by Jembo » Fri Apr 05, 2019 2:08 pm

buzyg wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 8:49 am
Not sure that I agree completely with you there. Fitting larger brakes to a car without changing the OEM suspension set up is very unlikely, to improve the handling/contol of the car, in any way. However the small loss in handling is more than made up for by the increase in safety and driver confidence, due to knowing you can probably stop quicker than the guy in front. So the feeling of control is certainly improved. :wink:
The debate will no doubt rage on... last one I did was my old 3.0SE with the 330i calliper upgrade, though had poly’d & billy’d most of it before they went on.

Likely new discs & pads always help, made for a more relaxed drive - not bothering with the M as they’re fairly new & for road use, their bite is pretty aggressive, noticibly more than the dinner plates on my Merc & u don’t want to be too close behind that on a full stop

I
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M5 M6 brakes on Z4 --conversion?

Post by Player 1 » Fri Apr 05, 2019 2:21 pm

Valor1 wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 2:21 am
Player 1 wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:48 am
Regarding brackets, the guys in Belguim made up a CAD drawing of each one, 3D printed them to test fit before having a set properly machined.
Everyone else I've seen has done something similar to that and was something I looked into before selling the set I had, possible there's a small market there? You will also have to check your inner wheel diameter as some 19'' wheels won't clear the 400mm disc/caliper!

This is the Russian car I meant earlier;
https://www.drive2.com/r/bmw/z4/915819/
Thank you for all the great information! Much appreciated! Looking forward to this brake project )
No problem at all, will be looking forward to seeing what you can do!

For reference, I recently had a day in the new G29 Z4 with the four piston front calipers and two piston rears. The brakes on that car felt almost identical to the M4 calipers on mine, a test drive in the new car will give you a very good idea of what I've done will feel like.
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M5 M6 brakes on Z4 --conversion?

Post by Valor1 » Wed Apr 10, 2019 4:57 am

Player 1 wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 2:21 pm
Valor1 wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 2:21 am
Player 1 wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:48 am
Regarding brackets, the guys in Belguim made up a CAD drawing of each one, 3D printed them to test fit before having a set properly machined.
Everyone else I've seen has done something similar to that and was something I looked into before selling the set I had, possible there's a small market there? You will also have to check your inner wheel diameter as some 19'' wheels won't clear the 400mm disc/caliper!

This is the Russian car I meant earlier;
https://www.drive2.com/r/bmw/z4/915819/
Thank you for all the great information! Much appreciated! Looking forward to this brake project )
No problem at all, will be looking forward to seeing what you can do!

For reference, I recently had a day in the new G29 Z4 with the four piston front calipers and two piston rears. The brakes on that car felt almost identical to the M4 calipers on mine, a test drive in the new car will give you a very good idea of what I've done will feel like.
Thanks. Be nice to drive the Z4 E89 and G29 back to back. As the steel brakes from the M5 fit I'm thinking better option to keep weight down is to go with the carbon ceramic M5/6 brakes :)

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M5 M6 brakes on Z4 --conversion?

Post by mcbutler » Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:11 pm

Too much focus on the brakes as the primary stopping mechanism, what about the tyres?
Lets not forget the larger tyre footprint of the M card combined with greater weight matches the braking power.

Once you mess with this you destroy the balance built in by the manufacturer so careful consideration is needed.

Like fitting wider tyres, the weight of the vehicle across the tread is reduced by the larger area so less downforce to get grip in the wet!!

just a thought..
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M5 M6 brakes on Z4 --conversion?

Post by Jembo » Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:35 pm

mcbutler wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:11 pm
Too much focus on the brakes as the primary stopping mechanism, what about the tyres?
Lets not forget the larger tyre footprint of the M card combined with greater weight matches the braking power.

Once you mess with this you destroy the balance built in by the manufacturer so careful consideration is needed.

Like fitting wider tyres, the weight of the vehicle across the tread is reduced by the larger area so less downforce to get grip in the wet!!

just a thought..

Quality tyres & knackered shocks are just as dangerous.... as are cracked springs, arbs & worn bushes....so many things.

Certainly a bigger picture consideration :thumbsup: , though IMO easier to follow any thread if remains on topic
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M5 M6 brakes on Z4 --conversion?

Post by mcbutler » Thu Apr 11, 2019 10:39 pm

Jembo wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:35 pm
mcbutler wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:11 pm
Too much focus on the brakes as the primary stopping mechanism, what about the tyres?
Lets not forget the larger tyre footprint of the M card combined with greater weight matches the braking power.

Once you mess with this you destroy the balance built in by the manufacturer so careful consideration is needed.

Like fitting wider tyres, the weight of the vehicle across the tread is reduced by the larger area so less downforce to get grip in the wet!!

just a thought..

Quality tyres & knackered shocks are just as dangerous.... as are cracked springs, arbs & worn bushes....so many things.

Certainly a bigger picture consideration :thumbsup: , though IMO easier to follow any thread if remains on topic
Agreed..
Mark
Plymouth
E89
35i
Carmine Red
Black leather

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M5 M6 brakes on Z4 --conversion?

Post by Player 1 » Fri Apr 12, 2019 10:42 pm

Valor1 wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 4:57 am
Player 1 wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 2:21 pm
Valor1 wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 2:21 am
Thank you for all the great information! Much appreciated! Looking forward to this brake project )
No problem at all, will be looking forward to seeing what you can do!

For reference, I recently had a day in the new G29 Z4 with the four piston front calipers and two piston rears. The brakes on that car felt almost identical to the M4 calipers on mine, a test drive in the new car will give you a very good idea of what I've done will feel like.
Thanks. Be nice to drive the Z4 E89 and G29 back to back. As the steel brakes from the M5 fit I'm thinking better option to keep weight down is to go with the carbon ceramic M5/6 brakes :)
That'd be an excellent setup if you can get it all together! I didn't do any weighing but the M5 calipers I had felt marginally heavier than the standard Z4 calipers which themselves were noticeably heavier than the M4 calipers.
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