New battery

[Pbondar]

...and how do you suppose the car knows the state of charge of the battery when it is first fitted?? Bearing in mind they are often sat on a shelf for 6 months in a stock room. Same when people connect a charger directly across the battery, bypassing the IBS module.

I'm not going to go into the technicalities of all this again as you can read it all on my other posts on the subject, suffice to say all the calculations are done through LIVE data measurements by the IBS module. It all sorts itself out after a few charge / discharge cycles.

I guess you either accept that Yuasa, Varta, BMW, Mercedes et all, plus loads of independents say you should, or go your own way..nice article here that clearly explains coding vs registration

https://www.youcanic.com/guide/bmw-battery-registration

[ph001]

Practically zero technical reasoning behind anything in that article. Just saying something should be done is hardly a valid argument. Of course BMW and many other manufacturers say it should be done as they all cottoned onto that cash cow about the same time.

I can categorically tell you that battery ageing is hugely variable depending on climate and a host of other factors that the IBS doesn't monitor. To derive a charging algorithm based on age alone is highly disingenuous - it just doesn't work like that. Hence why the IBS monitors things in real time.

My somewhat less monetary driven argument comes from 17 years as MD of a electronics engineering company specialising in industrial lead acid battery chargers. Make of it what you will.

[road warrior]

i know from experience that if you buy a battery at halfords they never quibble, new battery every time. with ONE proviso, the length of the warrenty, so say you buy a 5 year battery from them and it fails after 4 - they will give you a new battery but only warrent it till the end of the existing guarantee, ie one more year. but hey.

[Pbondar]

Practically zero technical reasoning behind anything in that article. Just saying something should be done is hardly a valid argument. Of course BMW and many other manufacturers say it should be done as they all cottoned onto that cash cow about the same time.

I can categorically tell you that battery ageing is hugely variable depending on climate and a host of other factors that the IBS doesn't monitor. To derive a charging algorithm based on age alone is highly disingenuous - it just doesn't work like that. Hence why the IBS monitors things in real time.

My somewhat less monetary driven argument comes from 17 years as MD of a electronics engineering company specialising in industrial lead acid battery chargers. Make of it what you will.

Well you are entitled to , based on your own experience, choose your own actions..

I think on the Forum people asking for advice could reasonably expect a reasoned argument / documentary evidence .. if available..

Another article here.. https://bimmerscan.com/bmw-intelligent- ... ensor-ibs/

makes it clear that the IBS does more than simply calculate age...it assesses the performance of the battery over time based on its response to load, temperature etc etc

An independent workshop states its experience of not adhering to battery registration here..

http://casestudies.atlanticmotorcar.com ... acement-2/

I found out despite 40+ years in design, implementation, support of all types of hardware and software that it pays to have an open mind..

Not all knowledge transfer from one domain to another works perfectly, every time..

[ph001]

Fill your boots then

[warmasice]

It's not even debatable that any new battery needs to be registered. Failing to register won't stop the new battery working, but you will shorten the life span of the new battery. Quite an expensive corner to cut if it fails again in a couple of years.

Here we go again...

To be fair, he's right.

[ph001]

There are predominately only 2 things that cause a battery to fail early..

1) Sulphation of the plates caused be over discharge...basically battery goes high impedance (voltage is monitored in real time by IBS anyway so registration wont make any difference).

2) Boiling off of electrolyte due to overcharging (temperature of battery is also monitored in real time by IBS so registration won’t make any difference).

It really is as simple as that.

[R.E92]

...and how do you suppose the car knows the state of charge of the battery when it is first fitted?? Bearing in mind they are often sat on a shelf for 6 months in a stock room. Same when people connect a charger directly across the battery, bypassing the IBS module.

I'm not going to go into the technicalities of all this again as you can read it all on my other posts on the subject, suffice to say all the calculations are done through LIVE data measurements by the IBS module. It all sorts itself out after a few charge / discharge cycles.

It's not the state of charge that it needs to be given. It can estimate that based on the voltage of the battery and the capacity. It's the capacity that the IBS module needs to be given. It gets this from looking at the capacity of battery that has been programmed into the car (hence why you need to code the car if changing to a different battery type) and adaptations for that battery (which is the purpose of the registration, to set these back to to "new" battery defaults).

I'm not debating that your battery works without being registered. But surely as someone with 17 years of work in the battery charging industry you can appreciate that there is a lot of science behind charging cells.

[ph001]

The state of charge of the battery is really just capacity remaining anyway so the two are virtually the same thing. Both can be calculated rather accurately by simply measuring voltage.

There has been a lot of science behind charging lead acid batteries just fine for the last 50 years. How the hell car manufacturers managed all this in the past without an IBS and battery registration is a wonder of the modern world!

[R.E92]

The state of charge of the battery is really just capacity remaining anyway so the two are virtually the same thing. Both can be calculated rather accurately by simply measuring voltage.

There has been a lot of science behind charging lead acid batteries just fine for the last 30 years. How the hell car manufacturers managed all this in the past without an IBS and battery registration is a wonder of the modern world!

A knackered old battery might read 12.3 volts at full charge whereas the brand new battery should see above 12.7. The car will have a variable charging curve which uses the age of the battery as a variable.

That's progress I suppose. Same with coil on plug ignition systems, lambda sensors and direct injection. They worked without it 30 years ago, but weren't nearly as fast and efficient. Some people want carburettors and distributors back and complain about the complexity of modern technology, but the rest just get on with it.

[ph001]

One of the primary justifications of IBS was to allow effective implementation of efficient dynamics - the umbrella term used to describe all manner of measures to increase engine efficiency and reduce emissions. One of those was braking energy regeneration, a somewhat confusing term whereby the alternator only charges the battery when the car is coasting, braking, or decelerating.

The ECU has a rather strict set of parameters that it looks at to decide whether or not it will engage brake energy regen. One of those is remaining battery capacity and part of that algorithm looks at amps and hours in vs amps and hours out (i.e. remaining Ah capacity). That was the main premise behind registering the capacity of the battery at install.

Look deeper into how lead acids degrade though and you will find the rate of degradation enormously variable. They even vary by as much as 10% right out of the box. Manufacturers knew they couldn't rely solely on 'time since install' and 'amps & hours in/out' to ascertain capacity so the algorithm was written so that cell voltage overrides everything. Something that is monitored in real time. It's also the reason why connecting an external charger directly across your battery has no negative effects whatsoever (but hang on, doesn't the IBS now have a load of incorrect data in it as to the charge state of the battery???)....oh yes it does, buy hey it doesn't seem to matter. Well that's because:

THE ONLY RELIABLE way to ascertain if a battery is fully charged is to put a constant voltage across it and look for charge current tailing off (well you can also look at specific gravity of the electrolyte but that's hardly practical). It's just how lead acid batteries work, and always have done. Yes, batteries have got better in terms of electrolyte storage (i.e. AGM), impedance and longevity (silver, calcium etc) but they still approach full charge the same way as they always have done, and nothing involved with battery registration will make the slightest bit of difference to that.

I have enjoyed discussing the technicalities of all this but ultimately people will just make up their own mind whether to bother with registration or not. I've tried to keep things as factual as possible with established science on how lead acids work rather than bluntly saying things should or should not be done and I'm probably going to leave it at that.

[R.E92]

One of the primary justifications of IBS was to allow effective implementation of efficient dynamics - the umbrella term used to describe all manner of measures to increase engine efficiency and reduce emissions. One of those was braking energy regeneration, a somewhat confusing term whereby the alternator only charges the battery when the car is coasting, braking, or decelerating.

The ECU has a rather strict set of parameters that it looks at to decide whether or not it will engage brake energy regen. One of those is remaining battery capacity and part of that algorithm looks at amps and hours in vs amps and hours out (i.e. remaining Ah capacity). That was the main premise behind registering the capacity of the battery at install.

Look deeper into how lead acids degrade though and you will find the rate of degradation enormously variable. They even vary by as much as 10% right out of the box. Manufacturers knew they couldn't rely solely on 'time since install' and 'amps & hours in/out' to ascertain capacity so the algorithm was written so that cell voltage overrides everything. Something that is monitored in real time. It's also the reason why connecting an external charger directly across your battery has no negative effects whatsoever (but hang on, doesn't the IBS now have a load of incorrect data in it as to the charge state of the battery???)....oh yes it does, buy hey it doesn't seem to matter. Well that's because:

THE ONLY RELIABLE way to ascertain if a battery is fully charged is to put a constant voltage across it and look for charge current tailing off (well you can also look at specific gravity of the electrolyte but that's hardly practical). It's just how lead acid batteries work, and always have done. Yes, batteries have got better in terms of electrolyte storage (i.e. AGM), impedance and longevity (silver, calcium etc) but they still approach full charge the same way as they always have done, and nothing involved with battery registration will make the slightest bit of difference to that.

I have enjoyed discussing the technicalities of all this but ultimately people will just make up their own mind whether to bother with registration or not. I've tried to keep things as factual as possible with established science on how lead acids work rather than bluntly saying things should or should not be done and I'm probably going to leave it at that.

So all those manufacturers with their IBS systems are doing it for nothing?

There's enough information out there, as quoted by others previously. If you choose not to register the battery that's OK but best not to spread the misinformation to others.

[ph001]

So all those manufacturers with their IBS systems are doing it for nothing?

No. They are doing it for the implementation of efficient dynamics.

If you choose not to register the battery that's OK but best not to spread the misinformation to others.

Haha.. your trolling won't work on me. Have a good evening now

[TopDMC]

I really haven't understood much of whether "shop" bought batteries will work or not
However if anyone is interested, Euro Car Parts have a flash sale on car batteries
50% off between 7pm and 9pm tonight.
90 mins remain
Use code flash50

[Pbondar]

I really haven't understood much of whether "shop" bought batteries will work or not
However if anyone is interested, Euro Car Parts have a flash sale on car batteries
50% off between 7pm and 9pm tonight.
90 mins remain
Use code flash50

To distill it down. If you have an E89 then you need an AGM battery....there are two sizes one for non stop start and one for stop start.

Stop start was only fitted to later 18/20/28 manual models.

You can fit the bigger battery to all cars.

If the incoming battery is the same size (capacity in ah) as the outcimimg it needs to be registered.

If it’s a different capacity then it will need to be recoded and registered..

Hope that’s clear...